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Original poster

Seller refusing to provide certificates/answer survey queries

49 replies

AmberMariens · 12/09/2024 00:18

DH and I are buying a freehold property from a youngish widow (50s ish) who seems very unfamiliar with the process. She has been very difficult from the beginning, basically refusing to provide almost any certificates/reports/company warranties or get them done for things that are out of date eg FENSA stuff, electrical certificates, planning permission for loft conversion etc. The kind of basic stuff we had to provide when selling my flat and also my late parent’s home.

I believe she’s gone abroad for most of the year as she was trying to pressure us to exchange before she left, which we refused to do until we had at least some reports done (to try and keep the sale the agent actually agreed to pay for these as I pointed out we’d already spent a ton of money on the survey and solicitors fees and she hasn’t really shown much good faith at all).

But there are a number of outstanding queries that her solicitor is basically ignoring - we’ve now asked ours to ask explicitly whether he/his client are prepared to answer them. Would we be unreasonable to walk away if she refuses to provide this stuff?

I am aware she’s not obligated to answer or provide anything but when I was selling it was made out like I didn’t have a choice in providing various certificates and things and where I wasn’t able to I was made to pay for insurance.

I’m also aware some survey enquiries are arse-covering by the buyer’s solicitor but how do I know which ones are crucial (eg planning permission presumably) or could end up costing £££ down the line and which are nice but not integral?

Lastly, she also wants a two month window between exchange and completion, meaning we’ll have to stay longer in our rental. It seems quite a long time to me - has anyone experienced similar?

OP posts:

KievLoverTwo · 12/09/2024 00:35

>Lastly, she also wants a two month window between exchange and completion, meaning we’ll have to stay longer in our rental. It seems quite a long time to me - has anyone experienced similar?

You take on the risk for the condition of the property when this happens, which I guess is why same day exchange and completions are so common?

Pipe bursts? You pay. Electrics burn the house down? Your problem to sort. You also have to pay to have it insured from exchange.

Given everything else you have said, I would be walking. I do not deal with people who are not prepared to be reasonable.

Our (former) sellers originally wanted a long time between exchange and completion but didn’t want to hurry to leave the house. Having spoken to them on many occasions we finally concluded that they were getting the cheaper type of bridging loan: one where you already have a buyer and a guaranteed (as much as it can be) completion date. Bridging loans without those in place are vastly more expensive.

We didn’t buy the house so I don’t have a ‘how it all worked out’ story for you.

DPotter · 12/09/2024 00:40

Walk away

If the agent has resorted to paying for certification - they know the cause is not good.

Katkincake · 12/09/2024 06:44

Walk away if there are other properties you could buy, from how the market has stagnated it’s definitely in buyers favour right now.

if you have your heart set on it, reduce your offer justifying it by her not being able to provide evidence to the state of the place and you having to take on more risk & potentially costly repairs as a result.

either way it might make her start to play her part in selling a house, rather than her casual and self focussed attitude

Aussieland · 12/09/2024 06:47

I would pull out. She will realise soon enough that she has responsibilities and if she wants to sell the house she needs to engage

GreenTemple · 12/09/2024 06:48

Two months?! That is a HUGE liability for you! No chance…

toffeeteacake · 12/09/2024 06:49

I would walk away from this.

Also, two months between exchange and completion just isn’t a thing unless you’re buying a new build. It’s very unusual for it to be more than 28 days at absolute most. Really weird of her.

Soontobe60 · 12/09/2024 06:50

Sellers don’t have to provide any of the things you have listed. If you don’t want to buy the property any more based on this, then don’t buy it! Simples.

Spirallingdownwards · 12/09/2024 06:54

Some of the things you are asking for are not legal requirements.

Yes building regs for the loft is and that would be one I would want sorted.

But electrical certification, for example, isn't and neither are FENSA guarantees if the windows are older. Buyers that insist on things like these are as bad as sellers who won't supply things they legally should.

Speak to your solicitor about which are legal requirements and insist on those.

Explain 2 months doesn't work for you unless she is happy for a price reduction to cover the additional rent/insurance costs etc.

If you or she aren't willing to compromise then one of other will walk away at some stage.

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 12/09/2024 07:47

This is not the house for you. Walk away. Actually, run 🏃‍♂️

Twiglets1 · 12/09/2024 07:50

I wouldn't agree to 2 months between Exchange & Completion but would agree to 1 month. That is far more normal.

It may be that this woman is overwhelmed with all the certificates & warranties she is being asked to provide, some of which she may not have or know how to access. Possibly her husband dealt with stuff like that in the past or maybe they just weren't good at keeping on top of paperwork. Nevertheless, she is being unreasonable in not paying for things that can be paid for at this stage but rather getting her EA to do it!

Talk to your solicitor about it and get their advice. Things like FENSA certificates & electrical certificates are not that important I would say, not a reason to pull out of a house purchase, anyway. But planning permission is a more serious matter and you do need to check that the loft had planning permission. It's possible you could check this with the local planning department, I don't know.

Andwegoroundagain · 12/09/2024 07:54

My Dsis just bought a property and sellers just didn't have the FENSA certs as an example. And they didn't get the windows installed themselves so no one could go and get them easily as no one knew who to ask.
At the end of the day, buying a property is a risk based decision. There's some legal stuff that has to be in place and if it isn't then you can usually buy an insurance to cover it. There's some stuff that is then advised to have in place and your solicitor won't make the judgement for you, you'll have to tell them that you are OK to go ahead without, FENSA is an example of this. Only you can decide if it's a risk worth taking ... personally half this stuff is not worth the paper it's written in IMHO

I'd agree with PP on the delay between exchange and completion is quite long and you're holding a risk there. I'd push back or ask seller to cover this risk.

LittleBearPad · 12/09/2024 08:02

How much do you want this house?

decide that,
discuss what’s non-negotiable from a conveyancing point of view

Make your decision as to whether this is worth it.

Also how recently was she widowed?

WhereTheSpiritMeetsTheBones · 12/09/2024 08:06

I recently bought a house from a widow with young children so you have my sympathy OP! A lot of the questions she couldn't/wouldn't answer because her husband apparently dealt with everything. I did understand and appreciate this but at times it felt like a convenient excuse not to answer questions which might put us off buying or result in her having to spend money to fix things or produce certificates. She was also friends with the estate agent which felt at times like it was them against us.
We stuck with it because we wanted the house, and accepted the increased level of risk / the fact that we will never know the answer to some things!
In hindsight we should have offered slightly less than we did but we weren't willing to walk away, so they had us really.

Good luck with your purchase.

LindorDoubleChoc · 12/09/2024 08:13

She isn't obliged to provide an electrical certificate for you, you're maybe getting co fused with the rental market.

YOUR solicitor should know what paperwork is essential and what is just nice to have! What are you paying them for? They're supposed to be the conveyancing experts. Come on.

Twiglets1 · 12/09/2024 08:18

Seems to be a new thing @LindorDoubleChoc with buyers expecting electrical certificates. Don't remember that being a thing when I was a FTB or in subsequent years. Easy enough to get an electrical cert once you own the property so shouldn't be a deal breaker and most people won't have one bang up to date with current regulations unless the house is an ex rental.

TheFlis · 12/09/2024 08:23

Planning permission is very easy to check, just search the address on your local council’s planning portal, it takes 2 minutes to see what has been granted.

Saisong · 12/09/2024 08:26

Our buyers are paying to get the electrics checked, as we haven't got a seperate certificate apart from the building control one (from 20yo extension). They also paid to have the boiler serviced.

I was astounded as we haven't even exchanged yet! Very motivated buyers I guess.

Twiglets1 · 12/09/2024 08:27

Saisong · 12/09/2024 08:26

Our buyers are paying to get the electrics checked, as we haven't got a seperate certificate apart from the building control one (from 20yo extension). They also paid to have the boiler serviced.

I was astounded as we haven't even exchanged yet! Very motivated buyers I guess.

A bit foolish of them prior to Exchange but nice for you anyway to know they are super motivated.

Oldfatandfrumpy · 12/09/2024 08:29

TheFlis · 12/09/2024 08:23

Planning permission is very easy to check, just search the address on your local council’s planning portal, it takes 2 minutes to see what has been granted.

Same with FENSA certs, you can look them up on the website

Sciencestyle · 12/09/2024 08:33

Electrician here, I don't generally do EICR certificates for sellers, very simple reason being they void with change of ownership - so are not worth the paper they are written on after completion.

Occasionally I will do one for a buyer, but that requires the written permission of the seller, because its an invasive process to do correctly, I have to remove a percentage (25% as a rule) of the socket and switch faceplates to perform tests, which can damage the decoration.

A more limited inspection can be done by testing just from the consumer unit, but that's generally not worth the paper its written on.

Another fun fact is that you don't in law need to hold any qualifications or be a member of any professional body to complete an EICR on a property, the wiring regulations simply state "competent" and make no reference to what that entails - the discussion of many a thread on the electricians forums!

Roseshavethorns · 12/09/2024 08:34

It's your solicitors job to make sure that the seller provides everything that they are legally obliged too. They won't reduce their fees if you do it for them.
Contact your solicitor and ensure that the seller has provided everything needed, and if not, get him to chase it up.
I'm in Scotland so a different system but the bottom line is if you are not happy, walk away.

WickedStepmotherWasJustMisunderstood · 12/09/2024 08:34

2 month exchange to completion window = absolutely not. Hard, hard no.

This is all a bit odd OP. I would be walking away at this point.

TeenLifeMum · 12/09/2024 08:37

I’d assume she doesn’t have the certificates or know where they are. For the planning permission, if it’s not granted, you can get an indemnity document. It depends how much you want the house.

ours came with an electrical certificate but it meant nothing and we needed partial rewiring downstairs and in the loft - lights were flickering and we knew it wasn’t right after a couple of months.

Extended exchanged period would be a no from me though.

timenowplease · 12/09/2024 08:51

The Fensa certificate is basically bullshit and not necessary. You can go on the website and see if there is one for the address yourself. Not having one means nothing so that wouldn't bother me. The seller can get I think Indemnity Insurance which cost around £20 about 4 years ago.

You can also check the electric certificate yourself by going on the website and checking the address. You could also pay to have this done yourself. Shouldn't be more than £150 and take a few hours.

The more important one is the loft conversion. You can check this one yourself too. Just go on the council website and check the address in the planning portal. It's building regs you need specifically, not planning permission but see what's there. If it's not on the council website then there isn't any.

The loft is the only thing that would bother me. Only in terms of price and whether they're calling it a bedroom or not.

Mildura · 12/09/2024 08:54

Your local authority search results will show what certificates have been issued for the property, so you can tell whether they exist or not.

Planning permission you can check on the local authority website, and in many cases building control records are available too.

Having 2 months between exchange and completion wouldn't bother me as much as it seems to be an issue for others, but I would have a clause in the contract that the seller must continue to insure the property for the period between exchange and completion.

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