Aggressive Land Law solicitor sought

[Dinnerplatedahlia]

Does anyone know of a property lawyer who is red hot about covenants and stands no nonsense? We are being pulverised by our affluent neighbours’ solicitor and our solicitor is no match. She sadly dropped the ball during the conveyance process and it has only just come to light. She doesn’t want to go there but unfortunately we’ve got no choice. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks

I will look into that. Thank you. Good tip re finding a solicitor.
Thanks again 🙏🏼

Got it, you're in early stages then. Is your original sol on AL? Is it a big firm? (If small, they'll have to wait until she's back).

Ultimately, this is what PII is for and that's just that. It's why you use solicitors 🤷‍♀️

If her firm supports her through it, she'll be fine. Firms are much better these days at ensuring their staff are ok, she'll be fine. It's something we all deal with at some point in our careers.

Across this with regards to disclosure:

"For many years, it was the buyer’s responsibility to investigate all aspects of the property and uncover any potential issues. This was known as the principle of ‘caveat emptor’, or ‘buyer beware’. Effectively, caveat emptor meant that the seller was not legally required to disclose any known or unknown defects in the property, as it was the buyer’s responsibility to uncover this information.
However, selling a property now falls under the Consumer Protection Against Unfair Trading Regulations. This effectively reversed the responsibility to the seller to disclose anything which may impact the buyer’s decision to proceed with purchasing the property. If a seller knowingly doesn’t disclose anything of importance that they are aware of, they could even face prosecution. "

www.chancellors.co.uk/resource-centre/useful-information-for-sellers/what-do-you-legally-have-to-disclose-selling-a-house-uk

Yes was there no question on the sellers form that covered this?

Ie "is there a covenant?"

Do you have to maintain anything outside your dwelling?

If so, did they lie or say no idea?

As if this covenant is unregistered and so must have been there when they bought it, one assumes they have never paid anything towards X to be able to convincingly say "no idea". So that's many years of not paying something, which will diminish your claim for compensation, as it is unclear how much and even if you will ever need to pay anything.

the moral is, buying unregistered old property needs a much more specialised conveyancer. and probably insurance ti cover anything potentially missed.

On the TA6 there is no mention of this obligation and yes they were and are fully aware of it. So although I agree, this was missed by our side, the answer on that form is clearly untrue.

It is registered and they most certainly have paid for work previously, their determination to not ever have to pay again, was, according to a neighbour (hearsay I know) the reason the property was sold.

Yes smallish firm.

It’s not necessarily better to have a solicitor in court. They won’t charge less! They don’t spend all their days in court, so often barristers do know more about how the court will work.

I am assuming you know how much their charges will be? It might well be cheaper to rectify the fault. How are you paying legal fees if you don’t have money for the property “repair”?

@TizerorFizz That’s one of a list of problems. We are exploring no win no fee, or mortgage or loan

Nobody is suggesting not having a barrister if this ended up in court although a solicitor advocate would be fine too.

Barristers don't run cases.

So is the covenant clearly mentioned in the title register either directly or referring to a previous deed? It'll be Part C.

And your conveyancer completely missed it?

@BurntBroccoli yes

Usually positive covenants don't bind the land (unless supported by a Deed of Covenant or Rentcharge).

This is why it'll take time - covenants are so complex.

@kirinm In court they do, if appointed. There was a reference to court earlier. It should be avoided though. For the reasons I stated. Plus the conveyer firm should have insurance. They can claim on it.

I'm a litigation solicitor. Honestly I do understand how everything works in court / litigation and how the two professions work together.

"I hate the thought of complaining about her, she’s so lovely. It’s horrible having a complaint made about you when you thought you were doing your best for your clients. 🙁"

@Dinnerplatedahlia I used to work in this area, obviously you're getting some excellent legal signposting advice on here and I hope you sort it at minimal expense and stress in RL.

I'm just picking up on your comment here though as you have made similar a few times and I'm feeling your guilt vibes from here! Please, please do not worry about this aspect. I had excellent relationships with my clients - I worked as hard as I could and I also kept in regular contact. I find clients appreciated this aspect simply because the conveyancing industry is so notorious for two speeds (slow, and stop!) and it's so frustrating for buyers and vendors. Pro active and contactable as well as friendly staff are even more appreciated. Despite extremely hard work and excellent client relationships, I once made an accidental yet spectacular fuck up which the company's PII had to pick up, and it cost a lot.

I could tell my clients actually felt guilty themselves "getting me into trouble" as we had had such a good relationship - they had even already given me thank you flowers upon completion! BUT it was such a good lesson to learn and actually invaluable to my own career as I never made a similar mistake again and learnt a lot from it.

I felt hugely guilty for my clients (and obviously terrified about my own career!) My boss supported me really well however, and said "everyone makes mistakes - the first one is a mistake and it's called human error. If you make a second mistake in the same area however, that's called not learning from your mistakes and isn't treated so gently". It was invaluable advice for life generally! He also pointed out that's exactly why we have PII, because every single person makes a mistake in their career at some point.

So please feel no guilt for raising this, and don't see it as you "getting a lovely woman into trouble". You didn't get her into trouble, she is responsible for her own work, and if she has been accidentally negligent that's what insurance is for. She will certainly not see it as "you getting her into trouble", she will see the whole issue for what it is, and certainly it's not you causing trouble!

So please do let that aspect of guilt go. (I wonder if your DH feels the same - women socially conditioned into feeling unnecessary guilt is a whole other thread!) Best wishes to you.

Not sure why@kirinm is being so defensive - it’s reasonably common ime to recommend showing a case to a barrister for feedback.

and its not just her that is negligent, there is clearly a lack of firm oversight on these cases - no one did a double check of "lets check the title for XYZ before this is all finalised"

so no need to feel guilty, the firms processes need firming up if such a basic thing can be overlooked.

Also you need to think what outcome you want - removing the covenant seems unlikely (else everyone would get rid of an annoying one by this route of solicitor missing it)

So recision of whole sales contract? (if huge issue) or compensation (hard to quantify and could leave you exposed to future costs)

I'm not being defensive. I think the advice the OP is getting from some people is incorrect and ultimately a cost she shouldn't incur. Yet.

Thank you so much. We both do feel exactly the same. Your post is reassuring. If we could avoid this we would of course.

Thank you @kirinm @Mirabai @burnoutbabe I appreciate you are all trying to help, as with any group of professionals (including my own) there’s often differing points of view and healthy debate. This is all very useful because it helps us a) understand exactly what the legal people are saying to us and b) what ultimately is the best decision for us.
I’m ashamed to admit that I did an LL.B 20 years ago, I never practiced just undergrad, and I am pouring over my books trying to remember my land law but it’s too complicated for a lay person. It goes beyond the realms of the black letter law. I feel terribly guilty for not asking to see the old deed and checking it prior to purchase, I know 100% I would have spotted it, because it’s fairly plain (as plain as these old deeds can be). But I was busy with my own job and felt total confidence in our solicitor.I do feel like I have let us down also. I must say, listening to you clever people debate, it’s just as well I cleared off out of law. It’s a fascinating area….not as fascinating as my own though IMHO 😊

i will caveat that i have only done LLB law, 5 years ago (and only for interest, not as i wanted to be a lawyer).

your posts are a bit unclear - was the covenant on the land registery, as the property is registered - or was it just in old deeds (ie its all unregistered and this is first time sold since 2003ish)

It goes back earlier than this. To at least 1990.

OP if this is registered land, how was the covenant missed at the previous transfer?

The carving up of the neighbouring land, the sellers' letter, will create a brand new title triggering that brand new title's first registration.

The title investigation ought to have uncovered the easements and covenants which will continue to affect the property post-completion and post-registration.

"Letter" = land, I think.

Just back from Cornwall. Shattered.

In short, even if the neighbours'/sellers' land was registered, carving part of it out to sell to OP triggers the creation of a new title.

Note: HM Land Registry are taking (currently) up to 3 years to register this new kind of application (an FR1). If you've bought a new build recently, this is where it will be stuck. When solicitors complete on a new build purchase, they get their FR1 into HMLR and it sits there for 18m to 2y and THEN the Land Registry could pick it up and start asking questions (raising requisitions) about that application. Conveyancing lawyers have it so bad right now.