relaxations to permitted development rights & existing party wall agreements

[Roseosharn]

Ok, trying again for traffic....
Does anybody have any idea of when the relaxations to permitted development rights are likely to be implemented? What happens to existing party wall agreements if you specify one design such as a rear extension but ultimately want to build a wraparound (I think these are going to be brought under permitted soon)? Does a party wall agreement necessarily come attached to a specific layout or is it enough to say that you will build in accordance with permitted development rights in force on the date of the build?

I really want (or infact NEED) to get going but I don't want to end up paying out twice for surveyors etc. I don't get on particularly well with the NDN but that isn't a reason not to go ahead.

Finally, could I clarify ... if I do not dig foundations deeper than those dug by them for their ground floor extension then do I even need a party wall agreement?

I haven't heard anything to do with relaxing permitted development laws for residential extensions.

Whether you like your neighbour or not is not something to consider. You are looking to build something you should want to ensure whay you build has no detrimental impact to the house next door regardless of who lives there. Just be a considerate person.

When combining a side and rear extension to form a ‘wraparound’, the permitted development restrictions will be judged against the criteria for both extensions individually, making it unlikely for the project to fall under your permitted development rights. For instance, side extensions are only permitted development where they are less than half the width of the original dwelling, but when combining a side and rear extension in this manner, it will likely exceed half the width of the original.

The Party Wall act covers excavations within 3 metres of an Adjoining Owner, if the lowest point of the excavation will be lower than the underside of the footings to the party wall (or parts of their property which are within three metres of the proposed excavation). So basically if any part of your neighbours property within 3m of your extension has equal or shallower footings you don't need a party wall.

Surely it's good practice to have something in place with the party wall anyway? It covers both of your backs.

I saw a consultation about relaxation of permitted development to include wrap around ground for extensions. But a consultation isn't law. You need to operate in the current framework.

Just submit a full planning request for what you want, it's not much more money than an LDC. Then the party wall agreement should match what is proposed.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/changes-to-various-permitted-development-rights-consultation

From February

Well that was under a tory government and no news from Labour about taking those forward so fingers rin the air if it ever will. Better off going ahead under current plans if you need to get on .

Most people are more concerned about having to spend extra money than thinking spending this small amount now saves alot of hassle later on

Indeed. Having been on the other side, with neighbours who screwed this up and caused damage, I wouldn't go without one.

Thanks everyone. I am not planning to be inconsiderate. I am simply preempting the fact that they are likely to behave vindictively because they never knew about party wall agreements when they built their rear extension a few years ago and are still angry that they had to pay for one (upon my request). They would be looking to make me pay an equivalent amount or more.

@YesThatsATurdOnTheRug and others.....

Regarding this rule:
The Party Wall act covers excavations within 3 metres of an Adjoining Owner, if the lowest point of the excavation will be lower than the underside of the footings to the party wall (or parts of their property which are within three metres of the proposed excavation). So basically if any part of your neighbours property within 3m of your extension has equal or shallower footings you don't need a party wall.
Does this mean that I could build an equivalent rear extension to theirs without a party wall agreement even if mine went a meter further back where they have garden space? If I applied for a certificate of planning development beforehand and they were alerted to this by the ambulance chaser surveyors and asked for an agreement, could I legitimately refuse? Because of the anticipated difficulties, I am considering skipping this application until after the build is completed.

Am I still required to provide them with a notice of works in advance or can I simply start?

I also agree that it was a part of the Tory pre-election scattergun attack upon the electorate and if anything, Labour seem to indicate that they are more interested in building new homes on protected land rather than cramming more into large towns and cities.

But they aren't being vindictive when it comes to party wall. It's the law that they can appoint their own and you pay, they would just being doing what is in their best interest.

If they were angry because they didn't know about it all when they did theirs that's their issue since they didn't research properly.

Infact you should be okay about this because the point here is to avoid any costly issues and back and forth and all the stress that comes with it if you don't do things properly. The surveyors will be the go between and their interest is not you or them but the wall.

@Spectre8 I don't disagree but they did take it personally and continue to do so. They strongly felt that it should have been handled over a cup of tea, not via surveyors. They also have expensive tastes - for example, their architect was not just your standard high street one but an architect-to-the-stars if you like and I would end u paying several times over if they had their way which I cannot afford!

If I can build without an agreement then I would get my plans drafted and submitted by a reputable person who would also deal with buildings control. While I would love a wraparound, if a rear extension is going to make my life easier than I'd rather go for that. I would make sure the foundations aligned with theirs and we would be careful

The best they could of got is you all shared the same surveyor, they can be pisssed off and take it personally all they like thats on them.

They can pay for whatever architect they like not sure what thats got to do with anything or why that matters...it doesn't.

"...one design such as a rear extension but ultimately want to build a wraparound"

You have to be very careful with this, it is likely that it won't be covered by permitted development.

There is a very good explanation of things (with diagrams) here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/permitted-development-rights-for-householders-technical-guidance/permitted-development-rights-for-householders-technical-guidance#class-a-enlargement-improvement-or-alteration

I've added the relevant parts as images below to show what is acceptable and what isn't.

"Does this mean that I could build an equivalent rear extension to theirs without a party wall agreement even if mine went a meter further back where they have garden space?"

It depends. If they have built the wall entirely on their side of the boundary line it remains their wall and you can't touch it.

If you area going to build your extension within 3m of his existing building and any part of the excavation is going to be deeper than his foundations then you need to do a Party Wall Notice. If the excavation is going no lower than his foundations then you don't need to.

If they have built the wall right on the boundary line then the wall has become a Party Wall. You can build onto this wall if you wish but you will need to do a Party Wall Notice in this case.

"...and I would end u paying several times over if they had their way which I cannot afford!"

That is not what a Party Wall Award is about at all. It's there to protect the interests of both sides.

It allows your builder to complete the work needed and go onto the neighbour's property if required. It also notes the state of the neighbour's building so that there is no dispute as to whether any damage was caused by your builders or not.

The neighbour doesn't get a say in how the work is done, that is decided by the Party Wall Surveyor.

Exactly why you want to do this so you don't get into stupid arguments over damage that would happen if you don't