Should we return tenant’s deposit in full?

[RedPepperGreenStepper]

DH’s mum passed away unexpectedly 13 years ago. We became unintentional landlords as it was the best option at the time.

We struck lucky with lovely tenants who made it their family home and lived in the house for 13 years; they have three DC and two cats. Due to a change in our own circumstances, we served S21 a few months ago and the tenants have already moved on.

We now need to return their deposit of around £700. However, DH wants to make large deductions , whereas I believe we should return it in full. The deposit it protected so DH will not make the final decision if the tenants dispute it.

The house was not decorated or professionally cleaned prior to the tenants moving in as it was rather rushed from both sides. We live hundreds of miles away so we have never inspected the property, but have arranged repairs when necessary.

The tenants have (with permission) and at their own expense:

*Replaced all carpets
*Decorated the rooms (one is wallpapered in Peppa Pig, the other is Zoo themed, so it’s not neutral decor).
*Re-decorated the hallway, stairway and landing in a neutral colour way
*Fenced off the yard (it was an open yard when they moved in).

The house is now looking tired but it is generally clean and tidy and has been looked after as a family home.

DH reasons for deductions:

*The wallpaper and paint is scuffed in quite a few places around the house (the wallpaper the tenants added).

*Theres a cracked patio slate in the yard.

*There’s a crack in part of the pipework under the utility sink (the tenant said this was present when they moved in but as they rarely used the utility sink, it wasn’t a problem. They did say it has widened over time and will now leak slightly if it is used).

*A fence panel needs to be replaced (this was the tenants fence) .

*There are weeds growing through the patio in the yard.

*The flooring joints have weakened and there are now sizeable gaps in the flooring (basic laminate).

*The entire home needs redecorating.

We are planning to move a relative in to the home temporarily before we sell next year and it will need some work. However, I do not agree with DH that this is the tenant’s issue and I worry he is going to sabotage our good relationship with our tenants over a small amount of money.

None of the issues were intentional damage as is clear from the way the house has been left. The tenants cleaned before they left and removed all rubbish. I’m concerned we’re going to pay out more to dispute this than to just return the deposit.

Thoughts?

your husband sounds horrible.
i could not live with someone like that.
i wish you, singular, well.
take care.

Is he a pig to you as well OP?

Dh is entirely unreasonable. Of course the tenants should get their money back. Sounds like you have been terrible landlords.

Your DH is being mean. Return the full deposit. That's outrageous.

It wasn't cleaned or decorated before they moved in, and the only redecoration in 13 years have been by the tenants?

Wear and tear happens in 13 years. It's absolutely outrageous that you would even contemplate making any deductions from their deposit.

Don't be the kind of landlords that justify landlords having a bad name.

Definitely no deductions, the ombudsman would reject that if they challenged it and if they didn't you would know forever you had scammed them.

Your DH is a stereotypical shit LL. He’s done nothing but the basics for over a decade and now expects the tenants to fund the redecoration.

As a LL I, as standard, paint from top to bottom between tenants (my tenants average 5/6 years) and I always expect to replace carpets as so many carpets just don’t last well anymore. In the flat where I have long term tenants I paint every 5/6 years and replace carpets when needed. I would never expect cheap laminate to last 13 years and then crib that it was worn!!

In your list I’d also have expected to foot the bill for the garden fencing as well.

How much rent have you ‘accidentally’ had off them in 13 years? A lot more than £700. And they’ve just had a baby he should be embarrassed.
Pay attention to this op doesn’t bode well for you.

This sounds like wear and tear to me I doubt he’d get very far with the DPS. Also very stingy given its a £700 deposit.

It will lead to unnecessary bad feeling ,and why do that ? 700 quid is nothing in comparison to having headache free tenants.give it back and don't be petty.

Landlords already have a very bad name here. Have a look at my own thread about tenant deposit and how it can all go very sour, quickly.

Thanks for saving me the trouble of typing exactly that.

Where is the deposit? Is it not with the DPS?

You've been extremely lucky to have such good tenants for so long.

If you know he's being unreasonable, why have you let it get to this stage?

I'd be seeing him in a new light. His attitude is disgusting.

How can you even bear to look at him OP? What a fundamentally terrible human being he is.

Fair wear and tear is permitted and they were there 13 years. If you have charges then they would need to be reasonable as otherwise the deposit protection scheme will side with tenants

I’m planning to show DH this thread, so my thoughts best remain unsaid. We have had many arguments about this but DH will not see sense. However, he might change his mind after reading this thread.

I have decided that I will use my own savings to return the deposit if DH refuses to agree. I would rather keep things on a positive note with our tenants.

Your husband sounds awful. He should be grateful to the excellent tenants who even paid for maintenance out of their own pocket because he (and you) did not. To quibble over £700 after 13 years of tenancy for things that are normal wear and tear is just the sort of behaviour that gives LLs a bad reputation.

I would expect the tenants to contest via the deposit scheme and have it all returned anyway but it would certainly leave a very sour taste from their perspective. I'm sure they could do without this stress having been kicked out of the home of 13 years with a new baby and two others.

The deposit service won’t agree with him anyway.

Especially if there’s no detailed inventory or photos from the move in.

They were set up especially to deal with LLs like him who attempt to steal their tenants deposit for their own gains.

I can't believe he wants to make deductions off things the tenants have put in place! The fence they have paid for! The wallpaper they have put up with permission!

The limited damage to these sounds like it would be wear and tear anyway. But even if it were not, deductions on this basis to the deposit are based on the idea that the landlord pays for a new carpet/flooring/wallpaper and can expect this to last for X years; the deduction to the deposit is essentially a contribution to the repair/redo based on it having to be done sooner than it otherwise might have been needed. The deduction means that the landlord gets a payment towards a repair that if not for the damage caused by the tenant, might not have been needed for another year or two. That's the basis behind the calculation of how much the landlord might be entitled to claim taking into account the age of whatever is being claimed against.

There's no rationale for being able to claim against repairs made and paid for by the tenants! If he ever gets tenants again (I see a relative is going to live there for a time first), will he go to inspect the place and try to deduct from their deposit because he can see that their laptop screen flickers and the chairs they've bought (which are theirs) are a bit chipped and the laundry that's hanging up is a bit faded?

Needs to be returned in full.

This is what I would do, pay them myself if he withholds the deposit.
He sounds rather unreasonable ☹️

Wow, is your husband such a greedy, money-grabbing, nasty barstool in other ways? FGS!

Wow, what a nasty shit your dh is for contemplating this. Of course you will need to redecorate after a 13 year tenancy. Everything you have said is either wear or tear or you have no way of proving it wasn’t like that prior to them moving in. They would absolutely get everything back if they disputed it….at least it sounds like the deposit is in a proper scheme. Which is good because if not they could sue the arse off you for the deposit and then some.

Gosh. I'd be sending them the full deposit back, plus a huge bunch of flowers and box of chocolates, with a card to say congratulations on the new baby and thanks for being such great tenants for THIRTEEN YEARS.