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Should we return tenant’s deposit in full?

383 replies

RedPepperGreenStepper · 14/07/2024 15:41

DH’s mum passed away unexpectedly 13 years ago. We became unintentional landlords as it was the best option at the time.

We struck lucky with lovely tenants who made it their family home and lived in the house for 13 years; they have three DC and two cats. Due to a change in our own circumstances, we served S21 a few months ago and the tenants have already moved on.

We now need to return their deposit of around £700. However, DH wants to make large deductions , whereas I believe we should return it in full. The deposit it protected so DH will not make the final decision if the tenants dispute it.

The house was not decorated or professionally cleaned prior to the tenants moving in as it was rather rushed from both sides. We live hundreds of miles away so we have never inspected the property, but have arranged repairs when necessary.

The tenants have (with permission) and at their own expense:

*Replaced all carpets
*Decorated the rooms (one is wallpapered in Peppa Pig, the other is Zoo themed, so it’s not neutral decor).
*Re-decorated the hallway, stairway and landing in a neutral colour way
*Fenced off the yard (it was an open yard when they moved in).

The house is now looking tired but it is generally clean and tidy and has been looked after as a family home.

DH reasons for deductions:

*The wallpaper and paint is scuffed in quite a few places around the house (the wallpaper the tenants added).

*Theres a cracked patio slate in the yard.

*There’s a crack in part of the pipework under the utility sink (the tenant said this was present when they moved in but as they rarely used the utility sink, it wasn’t a problem. They did say it has widened over time and will now leak slightly if it is used).

*A fence panel needs to be replaced (this was the tenants fence) .

*There are weeds growing through the patio in the yard.

*The flooring joints have weakened and there are now sizeable gaps in the flooring (basic laminate).

*The entire home needs redecorating.

We are planning to move a relative in to the home temporarily before we sell next year and it will need some work. However, I do not agree with DH that this is the tenant’s issue and I worry he is going to sabotage our good relationship with our tenants over a small amount of money.

None of the issues were intentional damage as is clear from the way the house has been left. The tenants cleaned before they left and removed all rubbish. I’m concerned we’re going to pay out more to dispute this than to just return the deposit.

Thoughts?

OP posts:
Olganow · 14/07/2024 17:29

RedPepperGreenStepper · 14/07/2024 15:57

Yes I do think DH is seeing the deposit as a basis for improving the property once the tenants have moved on.

Myself OTOH, feels DH is being very unreasonable. I felt terrible serving S21 as the tenant had just had a baby and I know that the deposit will be a relief for them.

I'm this far through so maybe it's already been said but WTF weeds in the garden?!?

rainingsnoring · 14/07/2024 17:32

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 14/07/2024 16:59

This post should have been titled "We've treated our tenants badly for 13 years and not fulfilled our legal duties towards them. Now we've evicted them and my DH also wants to steal from them - is he being unreasonable?"

Also, I object to the use of the term "accidental landlords", because it's not true. You made a choice to rent the property out rather than selling it, it wasn't an accident.

Your choice may have been driven by the fact that the market sale price would have been lower than you wanted, but it was still a choice, so don't pretend otherwise.

I think people describe themselves as "accidental landlords" as a way of absolving themselves of blame for being a shitty landlord. They can't possible be one of the mean, grasping, grifting types of landlord because they're only doing it 'accidentally', see?

Totally agree with this. Don't make yourselves into victims of circumstance. It wasn't accidental at all.

viques · 14/07/2024 17:33

A £700 deposit over 13 years. Hmm let’s work it out, yes, works out to about a pound a week, so for the pound a week your husband wants to claw back into his greedy pocket you have had careful tenants, who paid their rent, looked after your property, have left it in decent condition - let’s face it, if you are going to decorate to sell a bit of Peppa pig wallpaper is nothing compared to the holes in the wall, broken doors, cracked windows, ripped out kitchen fittings, broken toilets, missing pipes and cracked sinks some landlords face.

Your husband is tighter than a gnats arsehole. Considering you have also had the benefit of 13 years of house price inflation he is a cheeky bugger.

Gardenschmarden99 · 14/07/2024 17:34

13 years is a LOT of wear and tear. I think it's really unlikely any deposit scheme would let you take money off. If their deposit wasn't in a registered deposit scheme then it's not legal either. So legally, you should give it back. Obviously you should morally too.

bowlingalleyblues · 14/07/2024 17:34

If i were the tenant i’d rip up the fence and carpets if you were this petty. And why haven’t you maintained the floor structure or the pipework, that’s not their problem!

feathermucker · 14/07/2024 17:35

If your husband deducts large amounts from the deposit, I'd be looking at him in a whole different way! Apart from basic, necessary repairs it sounds like you've done nothing to the property at all. If the tenants had also done nothing, imagine how much worse it would be.

Your husband sounds tight as anything.

Sushilover14 · 14/07/2024 17:35

Your husband is greedy.

Wheresthebeach · 14/07/2024 17:36

Like everyone else says. Return it in full. Any quibbling and you could be facing the cost of new carpets.

Apolloneuro · 14/07/2024 17:36

and people wonder why landlords have a bad reputation..

Good for you, OP, for not being a twat. I bet you’re finding your husband so sexy right now.

JoyousPinkPeer · 14/07/2024 17:39

Give them their deposit. All the jobs are normal 'wear and tear'.

KievLoverTwo · 14/07/2024 17:39

Ima break this down for your money-grabbing husband.

They have:

*Replaced all carpets

Which is the LL's responibility to do, approx 5-10 yearly

*Decorated the rooms (one is wallpapered in Peppa Pig, the other is Zoo themed, so it’s not neutral decor).

Unless you said to them 'yes you can replace the wallpaper but you need to return it to the original wallpaper before you move out' in writing, you don't have a leg to stand on

*Re-decorated the hallway, stairway and landing in a neutral colour way

I'm not surprised. He handed an old person's house over to a young family without caring about their surroundings. You're exceptionally lucky they stayed for 13 years.

*Fenced off the yard (it was an open yard when they moved in).

He should have done that.

DH reasons for deductions:

*The wallpaper and paint is scuffed in quite a few places around the house (the wallpaper the tenants added).

Wallpaper that you did not ask to be returned to neutral upon their departure. The deposit won't care that it's Peppa Pig unless you have that in writing.

*Theres a cracked patio slate in the yard.

There are half dozen patio slabs cracked around my house; I've been here for 2 years. It's because it hasn't stopped raining since winter 2022 and both the ground and house are moving.

Nonetheless, unless you can prove they maliciously had a one-ton weight dropped on it, it comes under wear and tear.

*There’s a crack in part of the pipework under the utility sink (the tenant said this was present when they moved in but as they rarely used the utility sink, it wasn’t a problem. They did say it has widened over time and will now leak slightly if it is used).

Thy haven't used the utility sink because they know you weren't going to get that fixed. Pipework is your responsibility. There's a leak in my upstairs bathroom my LL doesn't care about, so I don't either. Eventually it will bring the ceiling down. Then she will deal with it. And then she'll complain about how all tenants are the same, despite the fact I've had a steady stream of workmen through these doors since we moved in fixing all the crap she couldn't be bothered to maintain.

*A fence panel needs to be replaced (this was the tenants fence) .

Once a tenant has secured a property via their own means, it's literally your responsibility to keep that property secure. That means fences.

*There are weeds growing through the patio in the yard.

I get one foot weeds spring up through my patio slabs within a week; again, it's the relentless rain, and the fact that my LL is too much of a cheapskate to put weed membrane down before getting the slabs laid.

We just returned from 8 days away and I was terrified the grass was going to be half a foot high because this happens over and over again with our violently fluctuating whether.

Unless you have concrete evidence of good quality weed membrane being under that patio, I suggest you let this one slide.

*The flooring joints have weakened and there are now sizeable gaps in the flooring (basic laminate).

Again, that will be considered wear and tear, but also to add, we have sizeable gaps between our very, very expensive faux wood flooring after two years, and again, it's because both the ground and the house are moving.

By your husband's logic I should be paying probably in the region of 7k to get it replaced before I move out, should I?

Houses move and people inside of houses move things. And you've already called it 'basic' which means it's way worse than mine.

*The entire home needs redecorating.

Oh, do give over.

On a personal note I find it abhorrent that your husband has evicted a pregnant tenant to move a relative in whilst he redecorates around them, getting ready to sell it next year. He has a very dodgy moral compass and I would be seriously considering the future of my relationship with a person like this.

People who live hundreds of miles away should get Managing Agents. Has he:

Had an annual gas boiler service and given them the cert

Had the gutters cleaned yearly, chimneys swept yearly

Had emptying and maintenance of any septic tank every 6-12 months per manufacturers instructions, if applicable

Had the electrics tested every five years and given the tenant the certificate

Had the central heating system maintained every five years

?

Because those are just some of his responsibilities under law, which I very much doubt he's bothered with.

We are planning to move a relative in to the home temporarily before we sell next year

Please don't do this.

butterpuffed · 14/07/2024 17:40

I hope the tenants' deposit was in a Tenancy Deposit Scheme ? If it wasn't , the Section 21 wouldn't be valid .

ellabella2345 · 14/07/2024 17:41

To be expected wear and tear after that long. Give the full deposit back. Did you even have a full inventory with state of decoration and photos? If not you wouldn’t even have a leg to stand on re condition. Even with this it does sound like normal wear and tear, perhaps a little more but after being tenants who have paid ecc for 13 years some goodwill is needed on your side also.

BeardyButton · 14/07/2024 17:44

Thoughts? You married an ass hole.

haveacat · 14/07/2024 17:44

Sounds to me that there has been repairs needed to the property over the past 13 years that you, as landlord, have failed to do to maintain the property and your husband wants to charge them £700 for it!

I agree with all other posters - it is wear and tear.

Tiswa · 14/07/2024 17:45

You do realise if you don’t send it back within 10 days then they can start legal action and from the examples you have given you have not recourse at all because it is all general wear and tear

Despair1 · 14/07/2024 17:45

The tenants deserve refund of all of the deposit

JSMill · 14/07/2024 17:45

They sound like ideal tenants. What a shame your dh apparently doesn't appreciate them. I am a landlord btw.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 14/07/2024 17:45

On a personal note I find it abhorrent that your husband has evicted a pregnant tenant to move a relative in whilst he redecorates around them, getting ready to sell it next year. He has a very dodgy moral compass and I would be seriously considering the future of my relationship with a person like this.

The OP says "we" served the s21, so this is on the OP too. The only action that the OP appears to object to is that her DH now wants to actually steal their deposit as well as evicting them.

For all of the other appalling behaviour, including the failure to adequately maintain the property, she uses the word "we"...

Section21MyArse · 14/07/2024 17:47

The greed of some landlords never fails to amaze me. I bet he's made a tidy sum on the increased value as well. Is he going to share it with you?

IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle · 14/07/2024 17:49

rainingsnoring · 14/07/2024 17:32

Totally agree with this. Don't make yourselves into victims of circumstance. It wasn't accidental at all.

Actual deliberate landlord here and professionally involved in private housing law. I agree with both of you.

Deposit should be returned in full.

AhNowTed · 14/07/2024 17:49

Honestly I'm inexplicably angry about this.

The absolute fucking brass neck, and greed.

The complete lack of any thought for your good tenants, who at their own expense upgraded a tired elderly persons house into something they could live with.

All while you've done nothing.

Tharshe · 14/07/2024 17:49

Absolutely refund the whole amount. Sounds like you had lovely tenants and they deserve to get it back.

MrsSunshine2b · 14/07/2024 17:50

I wouldn't be able to look at my husband the same way if he acted like this towards a young couple who have been effectively bank rolling you for 13 years, and he's now trying to steal from.

There is absolutely no chance whatsoever these charges would be approved, so there'd be no purpose in him starting this fight anyway.

I'd be contemplating leaving him at this point as he has proved his moral compass and mine are not in anyway aligned.

rainbowbee · 14/07/2024 17:51

It's normal wear and tear. You got 13 years worth of rent from them and they left the property as or better than they found it. You can't charge for weeds ffs. Your husband is the kind of prick landlord who thinks tenants are second class citizens. Honestly.