Potential basement non-compliance - help please!

[Queenofswords88]

We’re in the process of buying a house. It was sold to us on the basis that it’s a two bed house but the basement room (which has an en suite bathroom) fulfils all the building regs criteria to be an official bedroom, subject to a fire door being added at the bottom of the basement stairs.

We’ve said we want evidence to reassure us the basement room will be a compliant bedroom if the door is added on. After going round the houses (pardon the pun!) it appears the only way for this to be evidenced is for the door to be added on and the council to come round to sign off the basement room. The sellers are pushing back strongly on doing this, because of both cost and timing. (Although we’ve been flagging the issue since the start of the process, the agent and our solicitor seem to have only started paying attention and working out what is required in recent weeks, at quite a late stage, and the sellers are in a hurry to complete.) We’ve been told we might need to decide whether we are willing to walk away from the sale due to this issue.

We didn’t instruct our surveyor to do a formal valuation, but he did say he thinks the house is probably worth what we’re paying for it even without the basement room being an official bedroom. However I think we are paying a very high price for the property and I was only willing to offer the amount we did on the basis it will be a three bedroom house with the door added.

We’re inexperienced buyers and would welcome any advice/tips! Thanks.

You can't force a seller to do anything to their property. Either buy as is, or walk away.
My ex once spent weeks arguing with a seller, insisting that seller should install a loft access. Seller sold to someone else while ex thought he had them over a barrel wanting to exchange.

Red flags. Getting a fire door installed would cost them £300. Surely theyd have done that back when they did the ensuite.

The fact they haven't got building regs sign off and are now kicking off over installing one door is very worrysome to me. It would make me think they're being disingenuous.

Trust your instincts. Changing a door and getting sign off will be quicker than getting a new buyer. If they want a new buyer, they'll be doing it knowing they won't get building regs signed off.

Id be looking around at other properties.

All you can do is negotiate but be prepared to walk away if they won't budge. What sort of survey did you have, how much do you trust that thr work is good?

Your conveyancer is leading you down a merry path of Arse Covering. I am pretty sure our loft conversion won’t be compliant but we love the house and will ignore any advice we get to have the sellers jump through stupid hoops.

If you love the house and it is worth what you are paying, don’t fall for the trap every FTB does by being scared that you may never resell without the necessary permissions by your conveyancer.

Makes me wonder why they didn't get building regs sign off. If it hasn't been signed off, how do you know it's been done properly? Is there paperwork showing they had building regs approval in the first place? You could phone the council and double check with them that's all they'd really need in the circumstances.

If you are getting a mortgage the mortgage company will have to agree to all of this

I had something similar when I bought a flat that didn't meet building regs for fire escape. Seller had to put in place various things to make it compliant and did so without a fuss because it would have been the same for any purchaser

However you have to decide if you actually that door there. Oftentimes it's because aethestically or practically the door or access corridor or whatever would be massively inconvenient. In our case we just removed the fire door when we moved in and then reinstated it when we left

We had something without building regs when we bought our first house and the solicitors arranged an insurance policy that the seller paid for and could be claimed on if there were any future costs relating to that. Might that be an option in this situation? But also, my Dad made me promise on his deathbed that I would never buy a property without getting a survey first and that advice has served me well.

Buying and selling has got way more pedantic now. I’d want that door installed and regs sign off. If I do any more work to my house, I’ll be insuring all the paperwork is tip top. Houses cost so bloody much, risk tolerance has gone down a lot.

This is poor advice. It's nothing to do with her being a FTB. Having a "3rd bedroom" adds cost on to the value of the property. If it's actually not suitable to be a bedroom, then the value is less.

Why didn't you get your loft signed off?

We did a loft conversion a few years ago, it was an easy part of the process to have them come round and sign everything off a few times. Anyone who doesn't is cutting corners and isn't the type of person you'd want to buy a house off. Poor construction can cost £££ to fix, buyers beware.

If you're asleep in the basement and there's a fire that blocks your exit, you're going to be VERY grateful for a fire door that could give you more time to breath while the firefighters put out the fire. It's literally a case of life and death. We have fire doors for every room in our house and it gives me a lot of peace knowing my kids have two fire doors between them and our main appliances.

It’s not my loft. It’s a Victorian loft that won’t comply with any current regulations.

But it is still a bedroom, and one that we can use, hence us paying for the price of that being a bedroom.

Which is all that matters when it comes to resale. Is someone prepared to pay for it?

RunningThroughMyHeadsaid: "Getting a fire door installed would cost them £300". No, it wouldn't. Our fire doors cost £1600-£2000 each. They are not just any old door but have to meet certain tight specifications, be made and installed only by appropriately-qualified contractors, and be certified. They have registration numbers on a metal plate embedded in the door, and once they've been installed, you can't do anything to change them - e.g. no repainting - without losing the validity of the certification. It took us months to get someone booked in to do them.

If you want the house, get an indemnity from the seller and then install the fire door once you take possession. But think too about exits. A fire door will protect the room for at least 30 minutes. Would that be long enough if a fire broke out in the night, or would you want a second exit?

My understanding of Indemnity is it only covers you for legal costs if the council come after you.

Oh ok. I see them as two different issues. If it was built before building regs, then

1. the council can't contest it.

2. the home owners didn't purposely avoid building regs. This is my biggest red flag. Why didn't they get the regs signed off over a fire door? That would be why I feel it's potentially very dodgy.

We have 7 fire doors in our house, signed off by building regs in 2021.

They aren't £2000 each, no way.
https://www.diy.com/departments/geom-unglazed-cottage-white-woodgrain-effect-internal-fire-door-h-1981mm-w-762mm-t-44mm/1448673_BQ.prd?storeId=&&&&&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw4ri0BhAvEiwA8oo6F2LA3W4nWr06YQw9W6NyCYaCUWb1TVPyAFqOmQPyppDkUHYdkN5bpBoCjoAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

£119 each + fitting by a local carpenter. You've been royally ripped off if you've paid £2k a door.

It's a fire safety issue. Absolutely do not use that room as a bedroom without building regs sign off. It definitely will be worth less and be harder to sell without it. I would insist on the door being fitted and signed off or I would walk away.

That's fine but that's for the OP to decide. The fire regs are not always sensible. In my case it was a third floor flat and the need for dual methods of egress and I made my own decision on that

Well, it's building regs requirement too.

Did they get the initial building regs from the plans and the interim inspections? If yes there is less to worry about. If they have no contact with building control at all walk away

Thanks so much for all your helpful replies! I spoke to someone at the council this morning who seems to think the room fulfils the requirements of being a habitable room - apparently there were certificates of completion issued for works that were done - but said if we want it to be a bedroom we’ll need to put the door on in future and submit an application.

Does this make sense? Is there a distinction in the building regs between a habitable room and a bedroom? How much discretion does the council have to refuse an application to turn a habitable room into a bedroom?

I hope you didn’t disclose the address as this will invalidate any Indemnity policy

What indemnity policy? The sellers put us in touch with the council to discuss the property.

You can’t get an indemnity policy now anyway. Shouldn’t the sellers be contacting the council and doing all this?

Just meant you have removed an option