Loft extension/party wall

[Honeybee45]

Our neighbours had scaffold erected on Friday when my DH questioned why they said they were having a loft conversion starting in a few weeks. Builder turns up this morning and starts the works, we have a shared wall in the loft should they have a party wall agreement in place? I’m unsure of the rules regarding loft conversions so not sure if it’s necessary or not but 1 weekends notice didn’t seem right especially as I WFH and they said it would be starting in a few weeks

There definitely should be a Party Wall agreement in place before any work starts. I would raise this with them if I were you.

Thanks I know if we ask them they’ll just say they've looked into it and don’t need one. Maybe I should contact the local authority planning dept?

It depends. If they are doing anything that will affect your shared wall or roof then yes they should have got a party wall agreement.

In contrast, if they are putting in eg a dormer window in the middle of their own roof and that does not touch or is supported in any way by your shared wall then they do not require a party wall agreement.

Have they shared their plans with you at all?

Yes, do your own proper research before talking to them, your local authority planning office sounds like a good place to start they usually have contact details easily available.

Which way do your joists run ?

There is a conversion method I have seen called telebeam. In this they insert aluminum beams parallel to the joists that run front to back in the house and they rest on the front/rear walls.

So I don't think that needs a party wall agreement as no modification to the party wall actually takes place.You can google it and look on youtube for how it works.

It should be possible for you to tell if this type of construction is used, because in the vids they roll back the first couple of feet of tiles along the roof edge so they can insert the beams. Plus you should be able to see the beams delivered.

Are they the sort of people that you would expect to ignore planning/building regulations ?

It depends on what they are doing. If the works wont touch or impact your party wall or roof then no party wall award is needed. Start by asking to see their plans.

Unfortunately they are very unlikely to share their plans. They have had all the tiles removed from the roof at the back of the house but when my DH asked what they were having done they just said a loft conversion with 2 windows at the front. The noise is unbearable today while I’ve been trying to work we just wish we’d had more than a weekends notice so we could have made arrangements.

I'd ring a local party wall surveyor and ask for their advice. They should be able to tell you if one is needed and advise what your options are. Alternatively RICS offer a free 30 minute consultation or you could try

So as expected the neighbours confirmed they had building regs and didn’t need a party wall agreement. We took photos of our intact wall in the loft on Monday and today we’ve checked and several bricks have been knocked out on our side and there are holes in the wall. We’re fuming and have told the neighbours to stop work while we seek legal advice. The local authority were no use at all they just referred us to the government website.

Cheeky neighbours! Local authority (I. E planning dept) should have advised you to get an injunction to stop them continuing until you get a party wall agreement. Get Your solicitor to send them a letter ASAP. They have to pay for your surveyor. Find a surveyor immediately.

My (possibly wrong) understanding of party wall agreements is that they aren’t actually legally needed but can be asked for by affected parties.

We had a loft conversion without party wall agreement. But we spoke to our neighbours quite a while before building work started and kept them informed of the schedule and shared plans with them.

Had they requested a party wall agreement, we would have done it. We didn’t need planning permission but all building regs were complied with.

Your neighbours absolutely should have spoken to you well before building work started.

@hannahcolobus "The reality is that the Party Wall Act is pretty toothless. In fact a lot of people say it only really remains in existence to keep benefiting those that make money from it, surveyors etc."

I would disagree, it enables the adjoining owner to apply for an injunction on the ground of breach of statutory duty. Although an injunction will only stop any work related to a party wall or structure, not other building work going on.

@Tulipvase "My (possibly wrong) understanding of party wall agreements is that they aren’t actually legally needed but can be asked for by affected parties."

You are mistaken in this case. The Act says:

"Before exercising any right conferred on him by section 2 a building owner shall serve on any adjoining owner a notice..."

The use of the word "shall" indicates that it is something that must be done

maybe.

The Gov website says you need to inform your neighbours 2 months to a year before work starts. Which we did. Our neighbours were happy and didn’t request a partywall agreement. I

Sorry, I thought you were talking about a party wall notice rather than a party wall award - my mistake.

You did give a party wall notice. That is literally all it means. You just write something like "Dear neighbour, we're going to be doing some work on the wall between our homes. Are you ok with that?" [ok, a bit more detail would be good, but you get the idea]

The neighbour then replies within 14 days "Yes, we're OK with that".

Then it's all done and you can start work.

You did everything correctly and by the book.

The problem comes if either you don't give the neighbours notice (as with the OP) or the neighbours express concerns.

If the neighbours express concerns and do not agree within 14 days then that is when you have to get into the whole party wall agreement thing

This is our loft. Our joists run front so the party wall in the loft was never used for any support. In fact, I reckon if it was needed structurally, it would have needed to be rebuilt as it was haphazardly built. You could see gaps in the mortar in the blockwork into the neighbours loft so actually us building the loft covered these gaps. We had what I could only describe as a stud wall built on that side supported off the joists underneath so party wall wasn't touched.

Ah ok. Well I’m glad we did the right thing!

Thanks for clarifying.

Thanks everyone. We do have legal cover with our buildings insurance, they’ve advised us to document everything and take photos. Luckily we do have before and after photos and have kept copies of all messages that have been sent and received between us. Unfortunately we have to give them the chance to repair any damage, only if they don’t can we take them to court. They have agreed so we will just have to wait and see.