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Planning Permission problem

12 replies

ChristinaTam · 01/07/2024 21:38

I got planning permission back in 2022 to do a major change to my house. It included replacing all the windows with larger ones and adding two new extensions. When the builder started he found that the roof was quite rotten and removed it to install new timbers. Whilst the roof was off he decided that it was a good time to install the big steels that were needed for the approved construction.
To install the big steels meant temporarily removing existing first floor timbers.
He also created the large openings for the windows etc. The gable end wall became very unstable and crashed down onto the new floor slab , breaking a big chunk of it.Pics available. Luckily no one was injured. We then called out the structural engineer to examine the remaining masonry. It was found that when we made the openings larger for the new windows the remaining masonry was also unstable. The engineer suggested that a wind post would be required between the new windows and the columns should be removed and rebuilt with 40 newton blockwork with an integral steel post. All the columns together only amounted to 15 sq metres. We removed the remaining masonry columns,which only required a small push over anyhow. We were just about to start re-building the columns when the planners got informed by someone that the house was demolished.
Technically it looked like that but only because that was the construction method advised by the Engineer. It would have been back looking like the original in a few days if we were allowed to continue.
Ever since we have been arguing with the planners about whether it was lawful or not to remove the old columns. They are saying that it was a demolition job and we are saying that it was a necessary part of the construction to comply with Building regs and the Structural Engineer, not to mention Health and Safety.
Now the planners are asking me to apply for a new house instead with lots of CIL implications in their favour.
The have been trying to mislead me saying that the current planning permission is not in force any more. But it is not revoked either.
I have , or never had any intention of constructing the house any different to the planning approval.
I am at my wits end at this stage with the planners. I need the house to live in it asap.
I would understand , if I were trying to cheat and build something different from the approved plans
If I carry on and finish the house as per approved planning , what is the worst thing that can happen to me. What law am I supposed to be breaking ?
All help appreciated please.

OP posts:
Mosaic123 · 01/07/2024 21:41

I don't think new houses have any VAT charged on the materials, and perhaps the building costs too?

Maybe a new house will be significantly cheaper for you?

Geneticsbunny · 02/07/2024 08:48

The issue is that because he has already started, he won't be able to register as a self build and so will have to pay cil. I am not sure there is a way round it if the council are saying that your planning permission doesn't cover the work you have already started. You may just have to pay cil and chalk it down to experience.

Geneticsbunny · 02/07/2024 08:59

Theoretically you would have needed building regs approval for a new roof I think? So that I guess is the point at which you veered off track. Has the new roof been signed off or is it still not completed? I am guessing checks by building regs during construction would have picked up some of the issues.

Taking the roof off and then removing the internal floors at the same time sounds like a recipie for disaster to me. Your builder is a liability. Could you maybe claim on insurance to cover the cost of the cil? And reapply for planning?

Seeline · 02/07/2024 09:01

Unfortunately, many of those that try to get round the planning rules loudly proclaim that it was never their intention to do so.
The demolition of a dwelling requires PP.
It is difficult to tell from your description how much if the house has actually been removed, but it sounds substantial.
I don't think the planners have misled you by saying the PP is not in force. They are saying that the work you are doing is not covered by the PP you have been granted, and that PP can no longer been implemented because the house that was the subject of the PP no longer exists.
The need to comply with Building Regs, H&S legislation has nothing to do with the planning legislation.
If you carry on, the Council could take Enforcement action. Continuing building in breach of an Enforcement Notice is a criminal offence and you could end up in court, paying fines or even imprisonment.
If you do carry on the final house would be unauthorised. It would make selling it very difficult.
Have you sought any professional advice? I would recommend a qualified chartered Planner (RTPI accredited), and possibly a lawyer specialist in planning.

TizerorFizz · 02/07/2024 10:02

Quite frankly, when a wall collapses there are serious issues with the way the plans were carried out. You needed a structural engineer before you started. Your project builder is incompetent. Did you not have a survey of the roof? Or understand anything about structures and safety? Obviously utterly incompetent. So yes. In effect you’ve demolished what you had so start again. Get better builders and get a competent engineer to design the structure!

OneForTheToad · 03/07/2024 06:49

We need a picture as it’s difficult to visualize. How old is the house? I can well believe an old lime mortar, solid wall would become unstable if knocked about and the weight ( in this case the gable ) removed from it.
The builder could have removed one column, rebuilt it, and then onto the next one. There doesn’t sound to be a need to remove all the first floor joists either to fit two steels. It’s possible if you hired a crane to lift them in, but that only gets them into the room, not in position, so it’s a bit horses for courses.

TizerorFizz · 03/07/2024 18:07

What can you tell from a picture? You cannot see wind speeds, structural loadings or whether the columns are load bearing etc. Basically the op needs new pp.

OneForTheToad · 03/07/2024 19:46

TizerorFizz · 03/07/2024 18:07

What can you tell from a picture? You cannot see wind speeds, structural loadings or whether the columns are load bearing etc. Basically the op needs new pp.

I’m 100% sure she needs new PP. I want to see what’s happened.

ChristinaTam · 24/07/2024 22:03

I had a meeting with the planning officer that approved the application. He acknowledges that it was virtually impossible to do the construction safely as per the drawings without removing and replacing most of the masonry. He admitted that it slipped through planning without being picked up. He said that planners were not technical people . He admitted that I was doing the work as per the approved drawings but I still have not got the green light to carry on. He kept mentioning Cill implications.

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 24/07/2024 23:39

Community Infrastructure Levy? You should be exempt. You really need a planning consultant and a structural engineer. I think you are in over your head.

Seeline · 25/07/2024 09:10

The planning officer may agree that the way you have gone about the work was the only way. He doesn't seem to have agree that the works comply with the PP that you have been granted.

Similarly, planning dies not consider the technical side of building - he is correct in that. That is why you have structural engineers and Building Control officers. They deal with different things.

It sounds as though your builder had no clue what he was doing either in terms of the structure of your house, or in terms of the legal position with planning permission.

I suspect that you will still need to make a retrospective planning application seeking approval for the works actually done. There is no guarantee that PP will be forthcoming.

CIL - community infrastructure levy - is normally payable on work where more than 100 sqm of new floorspace is created. Each Council has it's own rates. There can be exemptions for extensions and self-build new dwellings but you would need to check with your council.

I really think you need a planning consultant to help you out.

CatsNotKids · 25/07/2024 09:12

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

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