Is there a normal amount of survey issues

[Melcl1987]

Hi

I am in the process of buying a victorian house in south london and have had a building survey done and struggling to understand how significant some of the issues are given the prioritisation in the report seems a bit odd (some important seeming things are just down as other works where as some minor seeming things are down as urgent e.g. repairing a garden wall)

The main urgent things are probably fairly common e.g. replacing gutters, re rendering chimney, some small roof repairs. However, a couple of things we hadnt expected is that the surveyor has raised issues with the roof of the recently constructed extension which may cost approx 5k to repair, and the original ceilings are sagging and need replacing. There are also some big repairs put down as medium term defined as after 3 years including replacing pebbledash render which is beginning to debond, potentially replacing the roof which is coming to the end of its life.

The boiler and electrics are ok but generally it feels like they have loft most of the big maintenance jobs.

Does this seem like an unusual amount?

We were sold it as a well maintained house to reflect the asking price. We were initially oaying 10k over the asking price but negotiated down by 7k (1%) however now worry we have undersold ourselves and are concerned about being able to afford it.

All of these issues are in addition to a historic issue of subsidence 20 years ago which we found out about post offering so we are feeling a bit weary of it

With the combination of old subsidence (assume it was fixed?) and the issues with the extension (again assume all the paperwork is available for this? If it is recent is it not under warranty?), and the sagging ceilings, I would personally be walking away or expecting to negotiate down to cover these costs.

Where in S London? Subsidence works are very common in some areas of S/SE London due to the soil type.

Might be worth giving the surveyor a call to suss out the urgency of issues. They often say more helpful stuff in conversation than in reports!

Thanks, we have negotiated down a bit but only ended up with a third of the cost of some of the works and have since looked into a couple of the other issues a bit more and realised they are likely to cost more than anticipated. Unfortunately the survey report has made working out the big ticket items quite difficult and there is a large degree of uncertainty over the cost of some items of work without being able to get people to visit and quote.

I would be a little weary about subsidence. Presumably it was underpinned or fixed at the time but I think once it has happened there is a possibility if reoccurrence. This should be reflected in the asking price as if you want to sell in the future buyers may negotiate on this. I’m no expert but as suggested higher up I would definitely call the surveyor.

I’m not in London so am also presuming this would be the same.

Are you buying with a view to living there long-term?

Are you able to afford £20-30k of work over the next 3-5yrs and would the property be worth that to you after the purchase price, expenses, and these repairs on top?

Did the original asking price reflect the amount of work that needs doing?

All of these issues are in addition to a historic issue of subsidence 20 years ago which we found out about post offering so we are feeling a bit weary of it

Check with an insurance broker if this will cause you problems with house insurance.

They always say Victorian roofs are coming to the end of their life. The last couple of posts I have read on it were about doing more harm than good. These two specific groups might be able to help:

https://www.facebook.com/share/S74LvVtnU9uVAvw6/?mibextid=K35XfP

https://www.facebook.com/share/agkjxREzYNKAdHYW/?mibextid=K35XfP

Older houses will always show "issues" which surveyors will flag as needing work when in fact it is just covering their backsides.

The ceilings will be lath and plaster - very common in older houses, there is no need to replace them. The same with the roof - surveyors always want to see new ones! Unless an obvious problem I doubt very much it will need replacing for many years or if at all.

The only one I would be slightly concerned about is the render - firstly some types of pebbledash stop an older house breathing so is better off than on, so if it does need replacing in the medium term, look at using more breathable render (lime).

Subsidence - it does seem to be common in certain areas, not so much a problem as long as it is historical.

I’ve never had a survey that didn’t tell me a period property’s roof was coming to the end of its life. I’ve also never had to do more than replace a couple of tiles.

I’d be more concerned about the roof of the new extension - but I would presume your sellers can show you that it has all been signed off by building inspection and/or give you an indemnity.

But a good surveyor will talk you through things in plenty of detail that they might not be able to give in print. We had an amazing surveyor for our first house who gave us a really helpful schedule of work which we essentially followed for the first five years.

Thanks for this, yes I agree with you that the reports do make many things sound a lot more urgent than they are.

With the ceilings I guess our concern is the prospect of then failing if they are sagging and a couple upstairs are cracked. It's quire hard to understand how urgent this is without being able to get others to look at it easily

I have lath and plaster ceilings in a very old house - the surveyor said they need replacing, it was absolute years ago and they haven't fallen down yet. They were cracked, we filled the cracks with a breathable plaster and repainted them.
They have been there many years and unless there is something very obviously, visibly wrong I doubt they will fall down.

What I would say is if you did replace them, make sure it is done when you are not living in the house and you have nothing stored there, or furniture as it is a job which causes a lot of mess and dust. That alone is the main reason we stuck with the originals!

The ceilings can just be replasterboarded & then skimmed without ripping the old ceilings down, I had to have mine done when exh moved out & left the house unheated & all the pipes burst. It took two plasterers four days to reboard & skim the ceilings & skim all the walls in a 3 bed house.

I think you need to renegotiate again. The ceiling issue is particularly troublesome to put right.

The ceilings are a PITA to fix. Yes, they might stay up indefinitely, or one might simply collapse.
The correct way is pull them down, however if they are half decent, you can just plasterboard over them using long screws to hold the boards.
The render also a PITA as pebble dashers are not easy to find, and requires to be scaffolded.
Also, while the surveyor is most likely covering himself, roofs don’t last forever and if the clay tiles are starting to blow/disintergrate, then it may also be an issue. That said, usually getting a roofer to go over it replacing the ones that have gone will prolong the life of the roof.
As PP have said, this is all pretty much par for the course in older houses. The house is 700k and @ 130+ years old. You have to expect to spend some £££ on maintaining old houses ( and on heating the b4stards also ).

Nothing except the subsidence would cause me concern. Investing in your home, doing maintenance work and making repairs and improvements as you go is a normal part of home ownership. Especially if you're intentionally buying an older property. You can't expect the seller to front that when they've already spent their money making improvements on it. The surveys almost make it out like you should expect to live in a perfect home with no home improvement requirements ever needed (at a cost to the buyer).

Subsidence would make me weary. However if it's common in that area, and that's where you want to live, then I suspect you'll have to accept it. Although as it was 20 years ago, again, probably not much to worry about. I would ask local estate agents. I doubt many people in London accept offers and reductions as there'll be someone behind you willing to pay. And if it's common, you may well find the same survey results next time.

Thanks this all really helpful. We definitely weren't expecting to get a perfect house but there are at least a couple more potentially big jobs than we were expecting.

For example we have now got a more specialist opinion on the extension roof and verdict is it was badly constructed and may need replacing at a cost of 8-10k. There is no warranty either. Given this was the new bit of the house we hadnt accounted for major issues with it. We also hadn't really contemplated having to replace pebbledash at the side of the house which is perhaps our oversight but guess that's what a survey is for

With some of the issues there is quite a bit of range in the costs depending on how bad (or overestimated by the surveyor) they are that it will be hard to fully understand till we move in so guess we just need to be sure it won't ruin us!

Oh I also forgot to add that there is very little paperwork for anything done in the past e.g. the underpinning and extension even though the vendor did the extension a few years back. Mainly concerned about no building control inspection of the extension given the quality of the roof seems terrible

I get the feeling you either do not wish to buy, if so then advise the EA/vendor/solicitor now, or you are trying to justify lowering your offer considerably.

Who is the specialist who looked at the roof? What did the actual report say? If it was a roofer, many will of course say it needs a new roof! If a structural engineer that is slightly different as to the response.

Paperwork - when was the work done? Would having a piece of paper saying all was well however many years ago protect you from problems now - the answer is no.

I am not saying this house does not have problems - it may or may not do.

Personally I would pay for a structural engineer to have a look at the house and then make a decision.

Hi, no I am simply nervous that the amount of maintenance required is getting to the extent I won't be able to afford it. Going to make a decision on this by tomorrow

I was initially a bit dismissive about some of the things flagged by the surveyor but the more I have looked into them the more they seem to need doing.

On the roof I have done quite a bit of work on my current old roof so am well aware surveyors often recommend these be replaced when they don't need to be. However, this is a relatively new roof. The surveyor highlighted a potential issue, a roofer then visited and took photos and I ran these by another surveyor who was very pragmatic when he looked at our roof. So pretty confident in this

It's generally quite hard to get a clear understanding of costs without access to the house

Yes of course I can understand the worry about costs now and ongoing - I think it does come down to how much you like and want the house. Just as an example, I am living in a house which the survey said needed all its lath and plaster ceilings removed as they were cracked and bowing. The slate roof needed replacing and would unlikely last for a year, there was historical movement on one corner of the house which could be very serious..........I could go on! That was many many years ago, the ceiling cracks were filled and painted - they are not flat but they are safe. The roof needed a couple of slipped slates replacing but otherwise is very sound and is hundreds of years old and the movement on one corner has not had any subsequent movement, and a structural engineer confirmed it is unlikely to going forward.

If we had done all the work the surveyor was suggesting we would have spent many thousands of pounds.

Easy for me to say I know. Good luck with whatever decision you make.

What is the issue with the extension roof?

One of the reasons houses are poorly maintained is that owners don’t follow up on recommendations, @Melcl1987 I would get the extension plans from the council. There should be plans for Building Control. Then engage a Structural Engineer. You do need to know if the roof is adequate or not. A surveyor even noticing issues means they are a decent surveyor!

Sagging ceilings are not great! Who wants them? Yes, they can give way! Might not, but could. What insulation has the main roof got?

Your structural engineer will find out what remedies (if any) were used for the subsidence issue. You really must get to the bottom of this. Was it just trees trimmed or was there underpinning? Not wanting to add to your issues, but how confident are you that the new section is joined to the existing so it won’t crack or settle away from the older building? Again, ask a structural engineer to visit. If they cannot build a roof, what’s happening below ground? The suggestion of £20,000 or a bit more could be very low for repairs - this isn’t maintenance.

Houses are maintained, that does not mean everyone should follow all the backside covering in some surveyors reports.

For example, unless a house was rewired as near to the surveyor visit as possible, the chances are the Part P regs will be out of date. So the question is, the electrics will be perfectly safe, so should the house be rewired again in order to obtain an up to date sign off? Of course not, the sensible thing to do is pay about £100 for an inspection.

A boiler which has been serviced every year and is safe, but it is sited in the "wrong" position in a house, due to the regulations being changed - should it be moved at great cost?

A 400 year old slate roof - which is not felted, but has lots of lime mortar to allow a stone house to breathe and purlins which may be a little crooked but have supported the roof with no problems for 400 years - should the roof be replaced?

Each vendor needs to be pragmatic and spend their money wisely, of course houses should be maintained, but that does not mean every time a house is sold large amounts of money should be spent to meet all a surveyors recommendations.

Just to be clear we aren't expecting the whole house to be brought upto the latest building regs , that would be completely unreasonable. We also aren't worrying about everything raised in the survey but we have looked through the survey, spoken to the surveyor and a friend who knows a bit more about these matters to identify the highest priorities which are mainly things that will impact on the water tightness of the house. We had budgeted for some of these but realistically expecting to spend 35k over three years is more money than we had expected

@Melcl1987 my reponse was to @TizerorFizz about maintenance, I do not think you are saying about bringing this house up to current building regs standards.

It is good you have a friend who is knowledgable but I also think you are still presuming you need a new roof and to sort the whole render within 3 years - it is very rare a house needs a new roof - most surveyors will err on the side of caution. Apologies if I have missed it but what are the details about the extension roof? Is this the only part of the roof which needs replacing in the surveyors opinion?

Is the surveyor a period property surveyor you have commissioned over and above a mortgage survey? If not you may be better off paying for another survey (far cheaper than the suggested 35k) from someone who is used to dealing with Victorian properties.

The render to me is the issue I would be most concerned with, why is it debonding would be the question I would be asking. It may be, if you wish to keep the pebbledash it will only need a patch repair where is is debonding. Personally on a pebbledashed, Victorian house, I would budget for removing the pebbledash, presuming it is modern, and exposing the original brick or rerendering with a breathable lime render. That would be money well spent.

Periodproperty forum would also be a good place for you to read/post on for advice.