Freehold owned by council?

[Anxiousmoves]

I’ve seen a property I’d like to buy. It’s leasehold (one of 2 flats in a building) & i am a bit anxious because the freehold is owned by the council & I’ve just discovered the upstairs flat has a council tenant. He sounds lovely but my worry is if he moves, the council could move anyone into the flat above & if there were neighbour issues it might be hard to get them to move. Am I being ridiculous given any neighbours can be a nightmare (or not) & it’s hard to get anyone to leave. And of course the neighbours could continue to be lovely. What would you do?

I think I’d be having 2nd thoughts about this one.

Wouldn’t bother me. You could have similar issues with non-Council neighbours. I think the Council is likely to be a better freeholder than a private company too.

Two separate things:

1. the council as a freeholder. From what little I know from when I was looking, this isn't a bad thing. It was common in lots of flats I was looking at. You'll need to google your specific council and see what people are saying about them. The rule of thumb I found was that they were less likely to hike your rent, but you might have to push a bit harder to get them to do things.

2. The council (presumably) as the leaseholder of the other flat and a taking as the landlord letting it to council tenants. Honestly on this one, it could be anyone. You need to read the terms of the lease for the other flat to see what it says about renting it out, general guidance on peace and quiet etc. At least with it being a rental property, there's comeback with the landlord. If it was privately owned and they were a nightmare, you'd be stuck.

*and acting as the landlord

Thanks @Lochroy. I’ve not heard amazing things about the council as a freeholder but then again they’re the freeholder not the landlord so realistically not sure how much contact I’d have with them anyway.
Re: them acting as landlord I don’t know how I’d ask for the lease but I imagine the right to enjoy your home etc would be as standard?

It's not the neighbour I'd worry about but rather the threat of major works in the future costing £££. I owned an ex council flat, it was very very stressful when they would randomly send us Section 20 notices saying the heating system needed upgrading and it would cost each flat £28K! Thankfully I sold it before anything came of it. But never again

Sorry, I wasn't clear. There will be two types of leases

1. The leases between the leaseholders and the freeholder. Likely two near identical. One will between you and the freeholder and the other between whomever is the leaseholder of the other flat (also the landlord) and the freeholder. It could literally be the council and the council, it could name departments within the council, or it could name a housing association. These should be available from land registry. They often include references to permitted activities and may e.g. prevent short term lets, for example.

1. The lease between the tenant and the landlord. I agree you are unlikely to get sight of this, but it probably would include mention on behaviour. You can always ask and just be told no, you can't see it!

Sorry you had that experience @neverwakeasleepingbaby
It’s a Victorian house divided into two flats not a big block. I don’t know if that makes it better or worse

I bought a flat above a council flat. The lovely deaf elderly woman resident sadly died and was replaced with a drug-using teenage twat with accompanying druggie friends, drinking, shouting and thumping music until the early hours. We left and lost a lot of money. I heard later from other neighbours that he finally moved out two years later - not evicted - after being threatened with a gun by his drug dealer. Bad times.

We were in a similar situation. I wouldn’t do it again. No real issues with the council tenants but council freeholders view leaseholders as fair game for fleecing.

I wouldn't. MIL is in a similar arrangement. The council are crap at repairing stuff that needs fixing eg front door, rotten windows, security lights. The interior common parts are horrible. Then they suddenly decide to do something random and unnecessary and charge the long leaseholders for it eg reconfigure the car park. The sound proofing is shocking too.

Thank you everyone who has replied. I’m really grateful for the advice. I think I’ll look elsewhere.

Hi
That makes it a lot better, a million times better IMO!!

When I worked, I did visit clients in very nice locations where from many years ago large mansion houses and some large terraced houses had been converted to apartments - I kid you not this is about 20 years ago and I used to think - WTF, I wish I could afford to live in this street - the flats had high celings, fabulous locations

The reason I state the above is - the council where selling off these houses they had left so as soon as the T died moved on etc, they never re-let it but sold it.

If the council does sell, in most people perception a private block/house conversion carry more weight and poissbly price advantages as well. The down-side IMO, a council will ensure the communal ears, roof etc are A1 conditioning can evict problem T's - if it is sold and you get an owner that is a nightmare noise etc or lets the grass overgrown or not prared to get roof fixed their share - that's the downside

Conculison- if you like the areas and happy with an panned works or not etc - go for it!!!

we had a council leasehold, the service charges were low, and we never got asked for major work charges but I think we just got lucky the 3 years we lived there were over Covid so council weren’t doing much. We had issues with neighbours (block of 8 flats), as was mostly still council flats.

Thanks @DistinguishedSocialCommentator but from what I’ve read this particular council tends not to sell their buildings.

Grreat, you've done your homework!! Seriously that is a credit to you as many don't think like that.

if not already done so, you may want to call and try your luck and ask housing re any plans if T moves out as you are hoping to buy - I guess they wont tell you anything but you may find the convo useful

if you really like the place - go for it - do view it about three times to see what commual areas are like on different days - if you have communal areas often a hallways if not grate - check gardens if well kept etc and nay rubbish around

also find out approx busing insurance costs as well as of contents so you are more ready

from what you have posted, you like the place - even visit the area different times of day and night inc weekends if you have the time to get the feel unless you are already familiar with areas
Good luck!!

From bitter experience I wouldn't. Council housing is so hard to come by, it is rightly given to those most in need. Sadly those most in need don't always make the best tenants. You could end up with a me (hard working, peaceful and respectful) or one of the 3 council neighbours in my small block. Ranging from hardcore drug users who party 6 nights a week to the milder non-workers who blast music all day.

(Please know I'm not making a comment about not working - more about the free time and hours non-workers keep - it can, in my experience, be really disruptive).

I live in a wealthy area and on the surface a very nice block. Yours being a Victorian split, doesn't change the tenants. You could get me, or the seemingly nice guy who currently lives there, but I wouldn't take the gamble if I were you.