Talk to me like I am 5 about first time properties

[KarenOH]

At the grand old age of 41 we are finally looking at being able to buy out first home ( a mix of some not unsignificant payrises, some early inheritance and no more nursery fees!). We will have around £40K deposit by April next year and the properties we have been looking at vary from 400 - 450K (SE London).

What we cant work out is - is it better to buy a house that is basically 'done' and costs more, than buy cheaper but needs work?

The difference in the mortgage seems to be around £300 a month saving if we go for a 'fixer upper' which doesnt seem like a huge saving for properties that need new kitchens/floors/bathrooms.

Looking for anecdotes - I dont expect for a first property that it would tick every box for what we want, but I am also wary of buying a property and struggling to make it liveable with the cost of everything increasing. Is it really as simple as 'Buy a property for £400K and then spend £30K on a new kitchen/bathroom' etc or just buy the £450K one thats done?

There's a difference between the property that's been 'done' in someone to else's tastes that you hate, and one that's already the way you'd have done it anyway. If you find one that's all done-up that you like, then remember that spending £30k on your dream kitchen probably only realises £15k on the sale price.

It's down to your personal tastes, and your appetite for DIY or the disruption of having tradies in. I look at listings on RightMove (for fun, we've no intention of moving) and a lot of properties that the Vendor would be considered as fully done up, I'd regard as a fixer-upper just to rip out and change everything that they've done to it!

Oh god, thats such a good point!

I mean, I am find with doing cosmetic changes like painting cabinets or new floors, but some places havent been touched since 1985, and it shows!

Blew my mind that garden studios/work spaces dont seem to add value. This process is an eye opener for sure....

The thing about garden studios and workspaces is that they're very Marmite - if you're looking for property and WFH then it may be exactly what you need and add value for you. If you don't need it, it's just a posh shed.

The fault is that people think property value is absolute. Every property has a different value to every prospective buyer of that property.

Depends on how well it has been "done".

Personally I would never trust anyone's DIY skills as we have experienced work done by a previous owner who had more ambition than skill.
A family member bought a house a few years ago which looked ok on the surface but after they moved in the extent of the previous owners bodging became apparent and they have had to have lots of work re-done whereas they had originally assumed it was ok.

We personally would rather buy the doer-upper and know that work was done properly and also to our exact tastes.
It depends on how much time & money you have and whether you have any skills or links to reliable tradesmen.

We've just exchanged on our house purchase (moving next week!) but earlier this year we ended up backing out of a purchase before settling on our new house - it was a probate property that ended up needing so much work that we couldn't cope with the thought of the stress, let alone live with the stress of it. The straw that broke the camel's back was discovering that the wiring in the house was 60+ years-old asbestos cloth wiring. I can't even begin to think how much it would cost and what the potential risks involved would be to rewire the entire house. It's been on the market for over a year now, with no substantial reduction in price to reflect the works required to make it safe to live in, let alone decorated to any standard with an old bath suite, etc.

So to answer your question, we decided that we decided a much more 'done' house, even if not to our taste, is more liveable long-term and a better use of our money than a house that needed work. Even if that probate property dropped in price by a huge percent, we'd still have walked away from it, because we need a safe and comfortable house now, not in the future.

OMG NIGHTMARE. Did the survey etc pull those problems up? So glad you can find this stuff out before you actually complete.....

Good luck with the new property!

Thinking about it, if we were to buy the house we rent now, it all looks ok on the surface but there are so many little jobs to get things working properly that add up to a fair amount of money......so you make an excellent point. If you start from scratch you know whats been done.

Kitchens and bathrooms are expensive and disruptive to do up.

When we were buying our baseline for those two rooms was usable as we did not have the money to do any works like that immediately.

As it happened we ended up with a flat with a dull but pretty new and servicable kitchen which we still have and a usable but very tatty and old fashioned bathroom, which we had completely redone 3 years after we bought.

We did a L3 survey and sent an electrician round as well. It really spooked us, and for good reason! The electrician was horrified at the wiring and didn't even know anyone who could have taken on the job. We lost some money on doing that, but it was a drop in the ocean compared to buying it.

Things like kitchens and bathrooms are more expensive than you think unless you can fit them yourself and the money can’t be added on to your mortgage so you’d need to either save for that too or have a separate loan… and you’ve potentially weeks of not having a kitchen or bathroom depending how long it takes.

But there’s no “better” I think it’s subjective which you do tbh.

You need to consider that you may not be able to get stuff done for months/years after you move in (either due to having to save up again or being able to get tradesmen). So consider whether the house is liveable until you can get stuff done. Then you might be living in chaos for a while until the stuff is done.

Have you looked at new builds? No worries about previous owners’ bodge jobs, and depending on how far through the build process it is you can often decide things like kitchen and bathroom colours etc. And there’s often good incentives for first time buyers. You need to make sure you’re picking a decent builder/development but if you’re not into DIY and don’t want the hassle of tradesmen they can be a good solution.

One of the less fun parts of home ownership is that you can find yourself needing to spend many, many thousands of pounds on uninspiring things like 'having a roof' or whatever, which don't really add any value to speak of (because people largely expect you to have a roof), are disruptive to do, and leave the house looking (at best) exactly the same as it did before you spent the many thousands. And at the moment, building work is particularly expensive. So I'd be a bit cautious of the not-touched-since-1985 houses as they almost certainly have all sorts of things that need doing to them that will not be the fun things.

It's one of those jobs where the house is safe and liveable up until you decide to do something about it. To do something about it, the house becomes unliveable until the job is complete. Asbestos cloth wires safely enclosed in the plaster of the walls aren't a risk to anyone until you disturb them.

(on a practical level... the sparky disconnects the house, then steps back whilst licensed asbestos contractors strip it out and clean-up, then the sparky comes back for the rewire and reconnect)

I think only you can decide if the extr money a month is worth it or not.

DH and I are crap at DIY and are very busy so want our downtime to be spent on leisure activities not refurbishment / managing contractors. I also get very stressed when things are out of whack so could not relax or enjoy my life during any kind of renovation. I know friends who've lived with bare plaster walls / no flooring for YEARS and it would drive me demented.

We prioritised a smaller house that was done apart from some very cosmetic stuff. So paid careful attention to kitchens and bathrooms as assumed we'd be living with them for 5+ years.

The other reason was that the current fashions are not to my taste - so I didn't actually like most places that had been recently 'flipped'

Worked for us!!

Sorry just realised that last bit doesn't make any sense with the rest of my post - I missed the fact that current house wasn't a recent complete refurb - so we did have some wear and tear / maintenance things to sort out but that was a trade off against perfect and grey.

We’ve had two renovation properties and honestly I’d never do it again. And we were able to live elsewhere, and we know a lot of trades people. But bear in mind it’s very unlikely a property will be “done”.

The chances of you finding a property that ticks every single one of your boxes is pretty much zero and that is not because of your budget.
It’s scary to commit all your money so for me the most important considerations were location, outlook, layout and potential to improve the bits I didn’t like.
Somebody else’s new kitchen was not a priority, but if your budget for change is limited I’d at least be making sure the layout meets your requirements. A like for like replacement kitchen is far more achievable than a kitchen that requires walls down etc

I would look below the surface for my view of "done". Look at wiring, windows, boiler, roofing, flooring, insulation, plumbing. Cosmetic things like carpets and paint and broken cupboards can be easily sorted. And don't worry if you don't like the design and style. You can sort it gradually.

I think property prices and renovation costs have drifted apart quite a bit and the gap between the price for a dooer-upper and a done-up doesn't really reflect the cost of doing up. If you are looking at property that you'd have to get professionals in to do a lot of work, the chances are you'd pay more in the long run if you bought the "cheaper" house.

Fully agree with @DogInATent though, the beauty is that you can ultimately have the house YOU want by doing it from scratch, and better to tear out a 1980s kitchen with doors falling off, than paying premium for someone else's dream matt grey kitchen and then still tearing it out.

Also depends on your timescales. Some people wouldn't dream of "making do" and so expect to buy the dooer-upper and immediately do it up before they'll move in. That's the most expensive way. If you're more of a playing the long game person and don't mind living with an avocado bathroom suite for a few years as you make your way slowly around the house, upgrading as you can afford it, then in 5 years time, you might have the "better" house for the same cost as if you paid more for a "done" one.

We bought a doer-upper. But it's an ex-rental. So what that means is that everything works, and everything has been tested and made safe, but stuff looks tatty and old. Eg the boiler and electrical consumer unit are only a few years old, no plumbing issues.

I expect it to take at least five years to get everything sorted. But I love the bones of the house and it's in a great area.

You need to be really clear about the work that needs doing, even if that means paying for extra surveys (eg electrical). Then be realistic about what you can live with for a bit.

Location and a good floorplan tells me at least 80% of what i need to know about a house.

I would look for a place that has been maintained to a reasonable standard and has kitchen and bathrooms that you can live with / are reasonably new

Ignore cosmetics its the cost of a tin of paint and a bank hol weekend.

I historically was a renovator but i am cautious / advise against it these days
Its not for the feint of heart

Plus points would be if the house was configured to allow value add in the future. Eg. Loft conversion / side extension etc.