Neighbours want a really high fence/wall on a terrace

[Pigtailsandall]

Hello all, hoping for a bit of advice. We have new neighbours on the southside at a row of Victorian terraces. Our long and narrow gardens face west. The terrace is old, and it is unclear who the fence between the properties belongs to, although we mended parts of it (and fully paid for it) last summer before the new owners moved in. The new owners have applied for lots of bits of planning permission, including an extension some front garden work, as well as noting that they want to raise the brick wall in the garden to 2 metres. It currently stands just under 120cm. Our problem is that the lower ground floor is sunk so it's half underground (and the ground floor is elevated) and the tiny bit of light that comes through in the afternoon to that west-facing corner of the lower ground might be blocked by the high wall. I've tried talking to the neighbours about it nicely but they are very insulated and borderline morose, so it's been a challenge. I don't actually have huge objections to the wall being higher, but I would like to understand (and I would like them to get someone to explore this) how much the higher wall will affect light coming in.

If the council has given planning permission to a higher fence, is there anything we can do? I would have thought they would need to seek some approval from us if our house is negatively impacted.

I don't really understand the ins and outs of location and height etc from your description, but legally they don't need any permission to raise boundary height to 2m.

Where will the light be impacted? In your garden or actually in your house?

As far as I know 2 metres is the legal limit so they are complying with that and the idea that you have something called a 'right to light' is something of a myth. So I don't think there's anything you can do OP, sorry. Someone might come along who knows better than me in a minute.

So in the actual house. Sorry, it's not easy to explain! Our basement room at the garden end has a west-facing side window. It looks at the fence. If the fence is raised, there will be less light coming in.

It's already been problematic with the neighbours. They removed a chimney breast inside the house which is against our shared wall and it caused cracks on our wall and soot to fall on our side. No party wall agreement either.

Has the wall been repaired yet ? That sounds the bigger problem

Yes, their builders came and fixed the cracks and repainted. We did note that we lost out, because the soot fell on our rug which I couldn't get clean after, and some books etc got destroyed too. It was a heck of a clean-up. They were very unapologetic and the last message from me (after they said they'd get us a new rug) they just never replied to.

They sound like a nightmare, but honestly it wouldn't occur to me to consider the light in a neighbours basement room- I would assume it was already pretty low of light.

Did you report the chimney breast thing to your insurers OP? They should have got a party wall agreement done for that, most likely. Have you had a surveyor assess that the repairs were sufficient?

You probably do have a right to light.. a quick google search comes up with lots of info - the below being just one. However it doesn't state whether it relates to basements - it might not apply so you'll need to get a solicitor to advise.

'Rights of light (or a right to light) is a legal easement giving a property owner the right to enjoy the light passing over somebody else’s land and through ‘defined apertures’. Typically, defined apertures are windows in their building. So, suppose a new development (including a residential home extension) diminishes the light through that aperture to such an extent that it causes a nuisance. In that case, the property owner may have the right to take legal action.
It’s important to remember that rights of light is not a right to direct sunlight. Rather, it entitles the beneficiary to a minimum level of natural illumination, not the sun’s direct rays.'

If you're not covered under the right to natural light, then the only requirement you can insist on is that it's the maximum height allowed - I don't think planning permission is normally required but if they've applied for some reason, you can object. Even if there was a defined boundary, they'd usually be within their rights to put another fence/wall up the other side on their property.

Sorry they undertook work without a party wall agreement?!

think this is a bigger deal than the right to light point which will be harder to contest

https://www.ts-p.co.uk/insights/what-can-happen-if-you-fail-to-serve-a-party-wall-notice/#:~:text=Both%20the%20building%20owner%20wishing,wall%20notice%20is%20not%20served.Read this ref requirement to serve a party wall agreement

Tell them the wall is yours and you don’t want it interfered with.
Say no more and step away.
The ball’s then in their court to either legally prove it’s theirs or build another their side of the boundary (which I doubt they’d bother to do).

This is perhaps one way to handle it. And you should get your house looked at properly to ensure the repairs are sufficient.

I would have got a structural engineer to take a look at the issues caused by the chimney breast removal, and not allowed their builders to do a cosmetic repair without being assured by an independent structural engineer that everything is structurally sound. They would be paying for the engineer, of course.

The wall is the least of your problem I think.

You need someone to come and have a look at the chimney repairs and assess the quality. As they’ve handled it, I’d have no trust it has been properly instead than on the cheap (cosmetic only).

For the wall, I’d say you could argue that it’s yours (and pointing towards the work you’ve done in it) IF you are really sure the boundary isn’t specified clearly somewhere.
But nothing would stop them to build another fence/wall on thier side instead. So I’m thinking you are going to have to accept that one. (Plus tbh you’re going to have more shadow from other houses and trees than from fences anyway)

As other PPs have commented - a 2m fence/wall is within the rules and doesn’t actually require planning permission; also, there is no legal right to natural light under building regs etc for a basement room, even if it is a habitable space. Disappointing, but you’ll need to explore other ways to enhance your light in that room.

@Pigtailsandall is it in a conservation area? Only say that because saw something on the news where a householder has to take down a high wall because it’s not in keeping. They hadn’t got planning permission and the rules are far tighter in their case so council refused retrospective PP
and the wall is coming down. Might even be worth checking online on your council’s planning pages.

If the wall is jointly owned, surely you can say that any change needs to be jointly agreed? They can build another wall on their land, but if the gardens are narrow, they may not wish to loose the width.

2 m. Is not a really high wall . It’s the legal height. He can still build a wall on his side , if you don’t want him to raise the height of the current wall.

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Surely with a 120cm wall between properties, if standing in your gardens you can see each other?

I can see why they wouldn’t want this.

You could taken them to small claims but it’s not worth it honestly! They aren’t breaking laws with the wall, yes they should replace the rug but it probably won’t happen

Hi Op - I am married to a Rights to Light / Party Wall Surveyor, so I can assure you that earlier references to it being a “myth” are untrue! If your basement window has been in situ for at least 20 years, it would have acquired a right to light.

More concerning however appears to be a lack of a Party Wall agreement.

You don’t necessarily need a solicitor at this point, but do speak to a Rights of Light Surveyor / Party Wall surveyor for early advice.

But doesn’t the neighbour have a “right” to a 2 meter high fence / wall like everyone else does ? Or does he not have any right to privacy just because the neighbours have a basement.

Yes, absolutely - but if they are removing natural light from a room (via a window) that has enjoyed light for the last 20 years or more, then the owner may be due compensation for the loss of light they are taking away.

The terrace is old, and it is unclear who the fence between the properties belongs to

How hard have you tried to find out if either property owns the wall? Is there anything in the deeds at all?