Help- Is our builder a cowboy?

[Golaz]

He’s currently installing a new bathroom for us. Hasn’t got far yet, but the floor tiles have been laid. (No grouting added yet), and we noticed that the floor is slightly convex in the middle. Should he have checked this and flattened it out before tiling? How concerned should we be about this?

So update is that builder says he put a DITRA mat underneath to prevent cracking. No plywood. He’s refusing to redo it but insisting it won’t crack. He’s saying if it does crack he’ll redo it at his own expense, but he’s also saying if there’s going to be problems we should see them in the next few weeks??

He should have laid the tiles on 10ml marine plywood. You should never tile straight on to floor boards

Is he wearing a Stetson? Did he arrive on a horse?

🤣🤣🤣🙏🏻

@Golaz

Installing Schluter DITRA Matting:

1. The substrate must be free of bond inhibiting components, be load bearing and even. Any unevenness in the substrate must be levelled prior to the application of Schluter DITRA Matting.

That's ⬆️ from the installation guidelines. Substrate being load bearing means that your tiles and the mat should have no gaps between them and the floor substrate, otherwise the tiles become load bearing when stood on.

I'm sorry to say but your tiles and/or grout WILL crack as timber boards are an unsuitable substrate for tiling.
The manufacturer's website says the mat is compatible with concrete, plywood and cement backing boards.
When it talks about "uncoupling" and "prevents cracking" it means movement in the same plane - that's helping tile not to crack if the concrete dries at a different rate to tile adhesive or plywood expands/shrinks slightly from wall to wall. It will not prevent cracking if the tiles and your floorboards move away from each other in up-down motion.

Shouldn't a builder have understanding of these things?
Plus, a thick marine grade plywood is where a lot of the expense in bathroom tiling goes. I bet he's also charging a top rate whilst skimping on the correct and costly materials.

Did he do the plumbing himself?
What is his specialism in the building trade?

Just a quick google:
https://www.tilingsuppliesdirect.co.uk/product/schluter-ditra-matting-decoupling-membrane
"Schluter DITRA Matting is designed for tile and natural stone installations, and serves as a waterproofing membrane, a vapour pressure equalisation layer to accommodate moisture occurring at the underside of the substrate and an uncoupling layer for problematic substrates. The substrate must be even and load bearing."

"Installing Schluter DITRA Matting:

1. The substrate must be free of bond inhibiting components, be load bearing and even. Any unevenness in the substrate must be levelled prior to the application of Schluter DITRA Matting."

So why is your floor convex and not level?

You are all right , i know 😪. He’s definitely talking crap about why they won’t crack. His assertion that if there’s going to be a problem it will manifest in the next few weeks is also just obvious bollox. I just don’t really know what to do now as he’s insisting it is fine and he won’t redo it unless a problem actually occurs.

what’s the quote for the whole job?
Is that for supply and fit for everything eg have you supplied anything yourself ?
How much have you paid him already ?

A problem will occur within the next 8 weeks max. The bigger problem is that you'll have parted with even more money by then and he'll just scupper away with it.

To be fair, you ALREADY have a problem - the decorative finish you paid for is not applied well as the tiles are uneven.

Otherwise any decorator could shrug at a shit paint job and say to call back when a problem occurs.

Nope! Mine was down a couple of months before it started to crack and come loose.
They also didn't plumb the toilet in properly so was leaking every time it flushed. The mirror they put up with glue (yes really!) started to fall forward one evening when I was brushing my teeth! Electric shower dial installed inside down. Really awful.
Id had such a stressful time with my insurance that I was just too worn out to make them put it right (except the toilet). The other things I fixed myself though all the tiles need taking up.

Please don't be me OP. Stop him doing more work now!

Yes he's a cowboy. That work is incredibly bad. I wouldn't have him anywhere near my house again. I'm sorry but if You've paid him a lot already then you're completely screwed.

Oh god that sounds awful!!! What was the issue with your floor? Was it the same? Did they lay a ditra mat instead of plywood?

I’m hoping it will look better with the grout 😬

If you're going ahead with it after all the posts where people with lots of experience have told you different, then....

I think your eye is drawn to the gap and pipe work at the top and it quite busy so it won’t photo well
crop the picture down and bear in mind it’s un grouted
think it’ll be ok

The grout won't make this right.

im just not sure what to do at this point that is manageable/ affordable given the totality of the situation we are in. It’s not that I don’t accept/ agree with all of the excellent points/ advice on this thread.
i think the only thing to do is probably let him finish the bathroom given where we are at. But I think then I think we need to find someone else to do the rest of the work we had planned.

Well we don't know how much you've already paid out. Nor how much work has been done or is left to be done. So although advice is about standard of the work so far - why is the floor convex? That gets forgotten - who can say what the rest of the job might end up like. That's what your decision involves.

We lost £500 of tiles when the tiler had laid them gappy and not flush. Unfortunately I just had to sack it off and rip it out. It's perfect now. Got another firm.in but we was ripped off so much doing our extension and dh is a builder ( but only on one listed building on perm staff)

I paid him 20% upfront , but it was 20% of the total amount of the work he’s supposed to do for us (not just the bathroom).
He acknowledged the floor was convex- well he couldn’t argue otherwise as it’s as plain as day. He said that it was because one of the wood panels underneath is raised compared to the others- a fault of the original floor. He claimed that there was nothing he could do about that without taking up all the floorboards and fixing the joists etc; although he then also later claimed he hadn’t even realised the unevenness until he started laying the tiles 🤔. ( I think you are right that this problem was probably caused by his pipe work tbh- that he could get the pipes deep enough) . He refused to acknowledge that he should have laid plywood over the floorboards and he’s insisting that his ditra mat is the better option/ sufficient and that there’s no way the tiles will crack because of how they are positioned over the raised /
convex bit (that part also sounded like total bollox). He says there’s no way he will redo the work now at his own expense and if he takes the tiles up now they will all break and I’ll have to order new. He’s said if a problem were to occur it would be in the next weeks while he’s still around and if that happens he will redo it all for free.
My friend suggested we all go up there and jump as hard as we can on the tiles for a while - I might try that lol.
im definitely worried about the quality of the rest of the job and what else he might get wrong 😪

But he’s also so far in now- he’s done almost all the plumbing I think. I’m going to get the other plumber to look at it on Monday

So is the bathroom suite fitted?
I'd (just my opinion here) just tell him he's had his money for the poor job he's done so far. The floor tiling is all wrong, you know that. How is the pipework? And tell him that's it, quits. How much more is there that can go wrong do you think?