Anyone work in windows/know about windows and can cut through the salesman spiel for me?

[ScaleInsectGoo]

So I have mainly old upvc windows in my house. Some are starting to go (misted glass, hardware breaking, seals not cutting it any more) and I'm getting quotes for replacement. These windows are pre fensa, so at least 22+ years old.

One of the salespeople pointed out that they are externally glazed and that this is t done anymore as it's a security risk. Google backs this up and suggests often windows are all internally glazed.

Another salesperson who I mentioned this to in relation to them being old as evidenced by the external sealing said that people still do this, it's not a security risk because thieves can just smash the glass and he knows a glass man whose whole job is replacing the internally sealed units that have been kicked in from outside. He went on to say that aluminium windows are all externally sealed and pushing aluminium as a better, greener, safer option to me.

I'm thinking salesperson #2 was just saying all this to sway me towards the pricier aluminium option? They obv sell both.

Salesperson #1 also sells both but said he thinks aluminium isn't worth the extra money since they aren't as thermally efficient as the upvc options. My research seems to back this up - unless you go super premium aluminium doesn't get as high energy rating as upvc. The pvc windows from company #2 are A+ and the aluminium ones which cost more are only a B.

I realise that people often choose the slim silhouette over other things, and tbh if I had the budget for super super alu ones I probably would but since I'm limited I'm thinking I'm better sticking to A rated plastic - but now I'm worried about kicked in glass?

Any help - don't have a partner to discuss these things with and would appreciate fresh perspectives

Upvc are fine for security. Aluminium are usually significantly more expensive. You could always get a quote for both? Just make sure they are FENSA certified as you’ve already mentioned.

No idea but I feel your pain. Ask two tradesmen and you will get two different opinions. Then try googling and get another 5 different opinions. It's so hard to work out what is the 'right' answer to these things.

Oh dear - re-reading my OP, it is a bit garbled. Thanks for responding 😃

I am getting quotes for both aluminium and upvc, but I can't afford A rated aluminium and probably can't even afford the B rated ones.

I've pretty much decided I'll end up getting upvc and am now second guessing if they won't be safe, despite the glass being put in from the inside. I was a bit baffled by the second salesperson. He said no matter what security you have at the end of the day they're mainly glass and glass can be broken. ? Argh

External beading was always deemed a risk
if someone was going to break in un clipping the beading and lifting out the glazed unit would be a lot easier and quieter than kicking it through

ant window can be smashed irrespective of Ali/plastic Or which way it’s glazed

we used to have Ali window they used to condensate on the frame but that was years ago probably moved on now

If someone wants to break into your house, externally or internally glazed isn't going to stop them.

Any window I bought would be chosen based on quality of seals and thermal retention because that's the biggest laying impact they're going to have once they are installed.

Metal conducts heat like a river conducts water, so the whole area of the frames will be a heat sink in winter, unless they have fantastic thermal breaks inbuilt.

You want:
Warm!! Good seals, minimal thermal conduction
Well built
Company who won't dick you about - ho will fit well and look after you if there is a problem with the fitting.
smart.

Don't get aluminium as they are really crap. We couldn't wait to get rid of ours as it warped and flexed a lot with the summer sunshine.

Yes a thief can break the glass but that is very noisy and there's a big chance neighbours or dogs will hear, however unclipping external seals and lifting out the unit can be done very, very quietly and quickly. That salesman was talking out of his backside, the safest option (according to him) would be to brick them all up so there's no glass to smash 🙄

This is good - no nonsense advice. Thank you.

@ScaleInsectGoo Have you thought about buying the windows yourself and then getting a general builder to fit them? You might save a lot of money

Thanks - I have considered it but I need to change some of the ground floor openings and I need it all to be done by one company so that it's all joined up and I'm not in charge of either measuring correctly, or making sure it's all done in one day and I'm not left with holes in building overnight (important for highly anxious dc).

But I'm not going with a big national company. Definitely going local and only well established one with lots of recommendations (personal ones). There's a few to choose from but they still apparently don't agree with each other 🤦‍♀️

Actually it is surprisingly hard to kick in double glazed glass. There is also an option for security glass, where there is a very thin plastic coating on the inside which stops it shattering, and means it takes much longer to break into.

Interesting, is that different to toughened safety glass?