Why is buying and selling property in England such a painful process?

[FinanceLPlates]

There must be better systems. I think Scotland and the US both operate differently for example? I’m not sure how exactly, having only ever dealt with the English system.
The thought of endless delays, chain breakdowns, months of uncertainty is seriously putting me off going through it ever again. Let alone dubious leasehold conditions, weird obligations to some medieval former manor or parish, dodgy build quality…
How is property bought and sold elsewhere? Surely there must be a better system!

And why doesn’t the English system get reformed?

I absolutely agree! The system doesn't work and yet nothing gets changed.

We are currently in the middle of trying to move. It's insane that I can box my house up and spend thousands on surveys and solicitors only for it all to fall through the day before.

There's no security and so much stress for all involved!

In this system all the risk is with the buyer really, there is a massive risk in buying property without investigating it so that is where the work is. Also banks drive the attitude to risk, there is a lot of old housing stock and lack of good legal advice/ no one wants to pay for it and lawyers haven't always helped themselves in a race to the bottom. Some parcels of land have been around for centuries so there is a little of that but rarely material. Both buyer and seller can pull out at any time prior to exchange which does offer a lot of freedom but also causes lots of stress. There are issues with any big transactional process especially when the property itself is in such short supply. I don't think the purpose of the process is always understood it is essentially risk management. Very hard to get a knowledgeable adviser in my experience which doesn't help. Would be interested to hear of other jurisdictional experience. Most seem to require an earlier deposit commitment and maybe rely more on insurance than investigating the property- it is worth noting that approach is more satisfactory for a lender than a purchaser as a cash sum for a defect isn't the same as the opportunity to consider that defect before purchasing.

I personally think that longer between exchange and completion and not boxing up the house until then could be suitable for some. Estate agents, lenders and lawyers might not like it as delays their payment but also the risk window of something changing between exchange and completion widens. I would never really bank on completion until it happens always slight expect it not too and try to hedge bets. I realise this is really hard with your home. There is nothing to be done to avoid the cost of the transaction if it fails as there is so much work to do prior to sale. Changing the risk pattern so sellers take on more would be monumental change to a system that is creaking all over the world and terrify sellers. Pretty much everywhere is in housing crisis unfortunately.

Yep. Greed and incompetence as always...

The Scottish system is better: at least you can look at a survey from the start, people are committed to the process earlier on and buyers have a week to ask sellers to pay for issues (such as a broken boiler).

The system in England is in the favour of the seller.

@Startingagainandagain yes I agree the system is in favour of the seller and when people sell they benefit from that. The lawyers are often blamed - although I realise this thread hasn't done that but I don't think they are being greedy wanting to get paid for the risk they run and work done. Would be hard pressed to find a solicitor doing residential work now it's mostly assistants and there are much more profitable ways of being a lawyer. I think in this system buyers do have a difficult time but it is forgotten that they don't have to commit either until much later and most benefit from being a seller at another time.

The worst bit, for me, was not being able to move into the new house until completion, whilst simultaneously having to be out if the old house. And technically it could all go wrong that day. It's a nightmare, but I'm not sure how you get around it.

Its just awful. I think it would be much better if you had to do a full survey with your EPC as a seller so on viewing you could see what was needed with the house. Much less risk of people pulling out. Also maybe a deposit on offering that covered the sellers costs. There has to be a better way though!

The Scottish system is good once the property is under offer, but the whole home report value/offers over/closing date process is so unclear and can encourage people to offer way more than they need to in a desperate bid to get a property.

The French way of buying is better than both the English and Scottish system.

@Seaside3 possibly not exchange and complete on the same day? I know the chain and professionals might like it but exchange and completion on the same day is quite recent and stressful. 20 years ago it would only be done if really pressing dates needed, 2/3 days between was standard.

@Lightfrost how does it work in France?

@CountryCob maybe. I just don't understand though hoe you're supposed to empty a whole house by noon so others can start coming in from noon..(tines as examples). Unless you load the entire house into Larry's and wait, which isn't so easy when you're trying to move yourselves and don't have access to huge lorries.

I know chains can collapse for genuine reasons, but some system whereby , once an offer is made and accepted, the other party , buyer or seller, at least becomes responsible for costs incurred if they simply change their minds, would help, happened to us, solicitors drawing up final contracts and buyer pulled out with no real reason given, cost us hundreds In solicitors fees for absolutely nothing and our whole system is cumbersome and slow

I think you are being a bit unreasonable. I have bought property in 3 countries and what makes the UK bad is property chains. (IMHO).

Other places have better property registers, but the onus/expectation of who finds out about e.g. flood risks/future development/planning obligations etc does vary.

In most places the risks are borne by the buyer.

Most people start planning and decluttering 2-3 months in advance. Honestly it isn’t that hard!

I did. And it was. Snd I know from speaking to.others it can be. Moving 6 people's stuff without a lorry was never going to be easy, no matter how much we dwcluttered. It took a lot of vans.

Luckily best time I move, it will be just two of us, so I can get the kids to clear their stuff before.

The last time we moved, we had planned, decluttered and packed as much as we possibly could but our sellers would not give the tiniest hint as to when they might want to complete.

In the end we got 2 days notice. It was the most stressful thing I've ever done. Because of the uncertainty, we were unable to book a proper removal company so ended up with some random guys and a too-small van which had to make multiple trips.

Even typing this is making me feel sick!

The whole system needs drastically overhauling.

I do sympathise with moving on the day, it is good to declutter and be ready but disheartening when it goes wrong. A gap between exchange and completion at least means you have the commitment without the final stage, it is what the 2 stage system was designed for. So you exchange on Tuesday and know Thursday the move date. Failing to complete means the deposit is forfeit in certain circumstances, there are formal notices to be served and interest can be charged. So it would not be possible to go into Friday for example not knowing if a parry might pull out. Good conveyancers would have avoided Fridays in the past as if something went wrong you don't have a spare day to fix it in. All that talent and skill has been lost and people rarely value the advice now. The system could be much better administered, separate exchange is being lost as an idea in residential- not commercial- matters. I agree the chains cause issues, supply of housing means people will not risk selling without somewhere to buy often.

Sorry our buyers not our sellers

In the US, it varies by state as state law generally governs the disposition of real estate, but there is a lot of consistency. For one thing, there is a binding contract upon offer and acceptance and the buyer has to make a substantial deposit into escrow when making the offer. A closing date is set at that time. There can be conditions, such as a satisfactory inspection, but there is a time limit to the completion of the conditions. Once that happens, more money has to be deposited. In my own experience, there is seldom a chain. We have always sold first, moved into temporary housing if necessary, and then bought. This is a fairly common practice in the US, as is obtaining a bridge loan to buy your new property if you haven't sold your current home yet. In some cases, you can close in 30 days from initial offer. DH and I have moved a lot because of jobs and we have never had longer than two months between offer, acceptance, and closing.

Why didn't you use a removals company with access to a lorry?

If you get a packing service they even pack up most of the house the day before so there is less to do on the day of completion.

Also, simultaneous exchange and completion is terrible for additional stress. If you can get a month between exchange and completion it gives enough time to sort stuff out.

@Twiglets1 we just didn't have the money.
@Cheshireflamingo I'm glad someone else gets it. We were in the same position. Literally didn't know until the last minute if it was all going through, so although we were packed and waiting at the new house, we couldn't get everything out of the old house ans it all went through at once. It's an insane system. And having spoken to others, it's the same for a lot of people.

A gap would be good, although I believe people can still Pull out (I may need wrong).

I think you made it a bit too stressful trying to move 6 people's stuff from a house without a lorry! I understand finances can be tight but still... that would have been a very stressful removals day no matter which system was in place

How does the French system work @Lightfrost ?

Does anyone else have experience of buying/selling property in countries other than England?

The French system;

Make an offer

Offer accepted

Sign a 'compromis de vente'

10 days cooling off after both parties have signed, after which both sides are legally committed. If either party pulls out there's a financial penalty to pay to the other party, unless the reason for pulling out has been written into the compromis as an exclusion eg mortgage offer withdrawn

Pay a deposit

Legal paperwork completed

Property sale completed

The best thing is all though is that there's only one solicitor (the notaire) and they act for both parties. There's none of the adversarial nonsense that happens in the UK. The vendor and buyer meet in the notaire's office on the day of completion to go through all the documentation and the keys are handed over.

It used to be standard to have two to three weeks between exchange and completion. It was better because you would have time to sort out things like phone, gas and electricity, house insurance etc, and confirm removals. Nowadays people seem to go for exchange and completion on the same day which can be absolutely nerve-racking and expensive if if falls through.