Is it a good idea to leave London?

[allaboutmoving]

Hello, would love some objective advice on what I recognise is a very privileged problem.

Live in London, have two boys, 8 and 4. Eldest goes to local primary school which despite having a decent reputation, we haven’t been overly happy with. For various reasons we’d like to move DS1 to prep school in the next school year. DS2 is due to start at the same state primary in September.

We cannot - realistically - afford prep school fees (certainly not for both of them, in due course) with the size of our currently mortgage. If we left London & had a smaller mortgage, we would be able to afford the fees.

Both DH & I would like another baby. If we are lucky enough to conceive, this would likely need to happen in the next year or so given my age.

I don’t think we have the space for a third baby in our current house. (And goes without saying that we couldn’t afford another child if we are thinking about private schools.) We are lucky enough to have a decent sized house with a large (for London) garden. We have 4 bedrooms but it’s a non-negotiable to have a spare room as my parents live abroad (visit regularly for extended periods, but also both in second marriages so don’t visit together but with new partners) and DH’s parents live in the UK but almost 300 miles away.

For all of these reasons I am seriously considering leaving London. DH is less keen. He doesn’t want to leave London and all it’s activities and opportunities. I am certainly not a country girl and wouldn’t even consider somewhere rural but a decent sized town would suit me (have been scoping out various places in Surrey & Kent).

I work solely from home, he works solely ‘in the office’ but this is not a fixed location and requires travel to various client offices. We are both keen that he isn’t stuck with a huge commute that means we have a bit more money but he is never at home to see the children during the week.

I’m not concerned about losing our social circle as I think a new one would be made with a new school. Both DH and I don’t live near to our really good friends & tend to meet up with them for dinners in London one evening after work. This could still happen provided we weren’t miles away. We don’t tend to socialise much at the weekends which seem to be reserved for play dates, kids activities and the odd date night for us.

DH thinks spending money to move is a false economy given stamp duty etc etc., but I think it makes sense to suck up the immediate financial spend, but get some more space which will benefit us longer term, plus moving areas gives us the chance to look at other state schools with a view to paying for private education if necessary.

What do you think? Am I crazy to think about leaving London for an unknown place and a hypothetical third baby when we have a decent sized house here?

Would you still send the kids to private school if you move? Would you base your new house on the school location? If so, will prices really be much better than what you have now for your mortgage? Much of the south east is close to London prices now since wfh is now so common. I wouldn't go back to London if you paid me but it sounds like you enjoy it?

We moved from zone 2 to zone 7 three years ago and wouldn’t move back in for everything. We have a much bigger property in a nicer street than we could have afforded in central London, can be walking the dog in fields 3 minutes walk from our house, and I can still get to most places in zone 1 in an hour door to door.

Factor in commuting costs. For example an annual season ticket from Tunbridge Wells is nearly £6k, £6,480 from Milton Keynes.

Personally I think London offers great opportunities for kids growing up here.

What is your budget for the sort of house you want?

Being on the other side (having left London) you have much less choice in schools once you've moved out, simply because there are fewer of them spread over a larger area. If you're planning a boarding prep, that's fine - but what if you plan your move around a day prep and you're not happy with that? Also, commuting is more exhausting than you imagine it will be (or more exhausting than I imagined it would be. I now shy away from dinner in London on a week night. It stops being fun/ relaxing when I also know how long it will take me to get home afterwards... ) There are benefits though. We live on the coast now and that is LOVELY.

If you don't have the fees without a sideways move, you can't afford the fees. The backstop is that if anything dire happens you can downsize or move sideways out, or a combination of both and not upheave the dc. It is much easier to move state to private than private to state for dc

Having said that we moved to a Surrey zone 6 town when the dc had unplugged from their London day schools and had we moved when they were much younger, educationally state would have been a much stronger option. However, at peak career dh would have had two hours a day travelling instead of one and I would have had fewer local work option whatever you decide you both have to be in complete agreement.

I would start off with looking at a few other local primary schools if you are not happy with the current one. What is it, in particular, that you don’t like? Do you have constant neighbours where you live, is there a community feel or not?

In London, you tend to actually get a huge range of choice for secondary schools, especially with your DCs ages and the falling birth rate and they can move again at Sixth Form, if they want.

Even with 3 DC and a baby girl, 4 bedrooms would be enough if the boys share.

Personally, given the set up you describe I would stay and find a better local school that is a better fit for your family. If you want your DS to be extended, tutors are far cheaper.

Personally, I also think that family overseas trips etc and good local clubs can provide a great “education”. You don’t need some provincial prep school with all the culture London has to offer. It is “experiences” and cultural capital, libraries, diversity etc that makes the most difference, in my opinion.

There are pros and cons and lots to consider of course - but I'd say the primary factor is your DH's willingness to move. If he's not on board, it won't work.

I should add that we left London a few years ago and settled just outside a nice town about 30 miles from London and haven't looked back, despite still loving and missing living in London. It is way better for our DC out here in the burbs. Local independent schools, family-focused activities and venues, very low air/noise pollution and access to ample natural green spaces, and better house affordability although it's not exactly cheap.

Thanks for all the helpful comments. Lots to think about.

If my DH isn’t on board then we wouldn’t move but exploring the options at this point.

We could afford the school fees from a ‘sideways’ move because - from my provisional searches and knowledge of various areas outside of London - a house of a similar size would cost about £400k less than our current one, so we could significantly reduce our mortgage which would free up money for school fees. Budget would be about £1.2m.

There‘s no option to move to another state primary school because of how oversubscribed they are. The catchment areas here are less than 500metres. Of course we could go on a waiting list and just wait to see if a place comes up but that may not happen so isn’t really a long term option.

Cost of commuting isn’t relevant to us as my husband’s work pays for all of his travel as he has to go to various client offices but the time / exhaustion of a commute is definitely a factor.

Sorry, just to answer some specific questions.

Definitely wouldn’t consider a boarding prep, would have to be a day prep only. Could base move on schools but if we were ‘downsizing’ our mortgage & choosing private schools this would probably extend the search area as catchments less of an issue.

Not really a community feel where we are in terms of neighbours. Everyone does their own thing although will say hello in the street. Community only really comes from other school parents. We feel the school is very chaotic, no individual attention given to our DS1, friends have had difficulties with bullying etc., I accept that some issues are related to the lack of resources in a state school (some, not all, I know there are also excellent state schools around) but we don’t want to make do unless we feel that staying here provides a real benefit to the children in other ways.

There's significant primary movement and fluidity of spaces as children hit: 8, 9, 10.

Ours went to the outstanding on your knees to save the fees jobby. In hindsight the "good" slightly less desirable school stretched children far more. It wasn't in the Borough's top 6 but that's because it had a different intake, less tutoring and fewer helicopter parents.

When they were both at selective London Day Schools the fees were £37k from net income 10/12 years ago. We did it when there was enough in the bank for four years and if one of us were taken critically/chronically ill, we could have moved out by 10 miles and freed up £200k for the balance.

@RosesAndHellebores yes completely take your point about movement in the later years, but still means that even if DS1 gets in there, DS2 would still be at the ‘original’ school.

Both DH and I have insurance in the event we were to get critically ill / be unable to work for a long period. We currently spend a huge amount on nursery for the youngest and wrap around care for the eldest so wouldn’t be looking at any school fees (if they went private) coming out of equity in the house, it’s just that reducing the mortgage payments would then add some more to the potential school fees pot which would make it easier to meet the cost overall. Private school is also only one element of the current discussion, it’s also whether we should move out anyway for more space, even if the children were to remain in the state system.

For £1.2m you could get a lovely 5 bed in parts of North East London where there are great schools. Look at places like Woodford Green, Buckhurst Hill and Chingford (north, near the station). There are great state schools, but also great preps too. You could still get to the City within half an hour from there. Lovely sense of community and very green.