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Commercial to Resi Conversion - How do I get finance?

13 replies

WestrayWife · 26/04/2024 23:27

Hi all. Does anyone have experience in securing finance to undertake a residential conversion?

It's an old property that was originally built as a house, but was turned into offices a few decades ago. I like to turn it back to a house.

My main issue is how to fund the works - I'm assuming a traditional mortgage from a traditional bank isn't going to be approved due to the risk, so I'd need a commercial loan? Any advice? Or anyone do anything similar and can share some "lessons learned" more generally?

OP posts:
SleepingisanArt · 26/04/2024 23:47

Do you have planning permission for change of use? You can't get a traditional mortgage unless there is a working kitchen and a bathroom so it might be worth talking to a mortgage broker to see when you would be eligible. I think you'll need savings and a personal loan to get started. (In my understanding you can only get a commercial loan if you are a business.) Good luck.

WestrayWife · 27/04/2024 00:04

No planning permission yet, although I'm fairly confident it will be granted given it used to be a house years ago.

Fair point re commercial loans only being for registered businesses.

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Femmefatality · 27/04/2024 04:55

You will need personal savings and loan to get started. It's possible to get a loan of £50k from a high street bank.

Also worth talking to a broker, as you may be able to get further mortgage finance once the project has commenced and it is looking more like a residential property with bathroom and kitchen etc.

But be warned, the mortgage rules for new conversions are different. Most lenders will require you to have some sort of 'new build warranty' before they lend. You may also need to update the title deeds depending on what you are doing. Lots to consider.

Another2Cats · 27/04/2024 10:45

Once you have at least outline planning permission then you can get a self-build mortgage (like the ones for people building their own home from scratch) but lenders won't touch you with a barge pole until you do get planning permission.

With a self build mortgage the money gets released at certain stages agreed between the lender and yourself.

Seeline · 27/04/2024 10:51

You can't get outline PP for a change of use (assuming the physical development is limited), you need full planning permission.

WestrayWife · 27/04/2024 13:20

Another2Cats · 27/04/2024 10:45

Once you have at least outline planning permission then you can get a self-build mortgage (like the ones for people building their own home from scratch) but lenders won't touch you with a barge pole until you do get planning permission.

With a self build mortgage the money gets released at certain stages agreed between the lender and yourself.

Self build mortgage is an interesting idea - I wonder if they would accept a conversion in the same way. Do you know any providers that offer a self build mortgage from experience?

I'm really not concerned about the planning. It used to be a house and it's in a residential area.

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Another2Cats · 27/04/2024 14:29

@WestrayWife Yes, conversions are accepted in exactly the same way. Although they are more used to dealing with things like barn conversions.

"Do you know any providers that offer a self build mortgage from experience?"

There are any number of them, if you google something like "self build mortgage for a conversion" you'll find a whole long list of brokers and mortgage providers.

I don't have recent experience of them (we did a self-build years ago) so wouldn't be able to make any current recommendations.

WestrayWife · 27/04/2024 14:35

Thanks @Another2Cats

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Geneticsbunny · 28/04/2024 13:40

As soon as change of use is given, you can get a mortgage as long as it is a mortgageable property. So you could purchase with a short term loan and then apply for a mortgage as soon as the permission is granted.

Also worth knowing that if you register as a self builder with the council you don't have to pay vat on the renovation work.

Also there is a thing called community infrastructure levy which you have to pay if you don't self build. It is based on the square meteage of the completed property.

Another2Cats · 29/04/2024 21:39

@Geneticsbunny "Also worth knowing that if you register as a self builder with the council you don't have to pay vat on the renovation work."

This is not correct. First off, VAT is nothing to do with the local council and secondly, renovation work is different from a conversion (and renovations would not qualify).

@WestrayWife Although, having said that, Geneticsbunny does make a fair point that you should consider the VAT position.

If you have a residential property that was converted into a non-residential building and you are now converting it back to a residential dwelling then, as long as the property has been non-residential for at least ten years, then you can reclaim VAT.

"...was turned into offices a few decades ago."

OK, no problems there then. However, you cannot live in the property at any time before the work starts, as this will reset the counter. For your claim to be valid, you must have evidence that no one has lived in the building for the entire ten year period.

Going forward, you can make a single reclaim of VAT paid, up to six months after you complete the conversion. This is done under the VAT431C Reclaim Scheme, all the details are here:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-vat-refund-for-a-conversion-if-youre-a-diy-housebuilder

There are different rules that apply depending on who your contractor/s is/are and who is responsible for purchasing the materials.

Any materials that you purchase yourself (whether it's tiles, baths, radiators etc) you will pay 20% VAT and will be able to reclaim that.

With any contractors that provide services and/or materials you must make them aware that this is a qualifying conversion and that they should only charge 5% VAT.

If you do not do this and they charge you the standard 20% VAT then HMRC will still only allow you to reclaim 5%.

If the builder incorrectly charges VAT at the standard rather than the reduced rate and you pay it, HMRC won’t process your claim. You’ll then be left in the position of trying to recoup the difference by asking your contractor to refund you.

Likewise, if your contractor is not VAT registered, never let them be involved in purchasing materials. You have the advantage of being able to reclaim the VAT, but an unregistered contractor cannot.

But it does get really complicated and confusing. For example, you can claim back VAT on your gas combi-boiler but not the gas cooker or hob in your kitchen (although you might possibly do so if there is a combined extractor and you keep very quiet about it!)

But Agas that also include an element of home heating, eg back boiler, are not subject to VAT - regardless of there being an extractor.

Another example, you can reclaim the VAT on wooden floors but not carpets.

It really can be very confusing indeed.

@Geneticsbunny "Also there is a thing called community infrastructure levy which you have to pay if you don't self build. It is based on the square meteage of the completed property."

This is a very relevant point. And it is here that you do actually need to register with the local council as a self builder.

Many councils do impose a Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL) payment on new dwellings (including conversions). Although some do still use the older Section 106 Agreement law to impose conditions.

CIL payments can be quite large. For example, where I live the CIL payments are between £150 and £200 per square metre for a new single dwelling. So an average three bed home of 100 sq metres they would charge between £15,000 and £20,000 and double those figures for a 200 sq metre property.

However, there is an exemption for self builders. If you occupy the property yourself for at least three years then you will not have to pay this fee.

However, there are very specific steps that you must go through to get the exemption. Please seek specific advice relevant to your own situation about this.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-vat-refund-for-a-conversion-if-youre-a-diy-housebuilder

WestrayWife · 30/04/2024 07:31

@Another2Cats that information on VAT is incredibly helpful, thank you for that. I had no idea we mighy be able to claim anything back.

Re CIL, I'm in Scotland so don't need to worry about that thankfully. We have Developer Obligations up here, but for a single change of use i don't think we'd hit the threshold so shouldn't need to pay anything. I will double check though!

Today's exercise is working out the business rates / Council Tax situation works - ie how and when to switch from one to the other. Lots to do!

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Geneticsbunny · 30/04/2024 08:03

Apologies for getting the terminology wrong but unfortunately that is often what happens when you hit perimenopause. We used the self build certification from the council to show builders so that they reduced the vat hence why I explained that. Also a house which is then an office and then back to a house is technically a house renovation although obviously for the purposes of the vat relief it is a "self build".

Seeline · 30/04/2024 10:00

Also a house which is then an office and then back to a house is technically a house renovation although obviously for the purposes of the vat relief it is a "self build".

Technically it is a change of use under the planning system, so a conversion.

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