I think my architect has cocked up

[Howdidthathappen1]

Hi - I'll try and keep this consise but would really appreciate any advice

Had architect draw up plans for amongst other things a large dormer on the side of our existing loft conversion to our bungalow. On the CAD he's put a disclaimer saying something about not able to measure so has made assumptions.
Turns out his measurements are so far out I'm losing a third of proposed useable space upstairs and feel massively cheated. It's because of the slope angle of the roof - in my head there shouldn't be an excuse to estimate that as it's easily seen.
The work is well underway - the new structure built so the size that the existing roof allows.
I've got an emergency visit from him tomorrow and not sure how to tackle it. From what my builder has explained and I've seen it just can't be rejigged within planning control.

Do I have any come back? I'm spending nearly 100k to gain literally a cupboard and still have a cramped bathroom with what we're left with.

His website seems to have expired and he's not on companies house.
Only thing I can find is he's on construction.co.uk as a listing.

Where I started off thinking I picked a crap architect I'm now thinking I've massively been taken in by the 'very nice man with a posh car and posh accent' and should have listened to my dog who had to shut away every time he visits because she growls at him

There's the possibility that it's the builders fault rather then the 'architect'. If the drawings clearly say 'not to scale' ,or 'measurements are estimates' or 'drawings for illustration only' and the builder built to scale without confirming anything with you then it's the builders fault for going by measurement rather then the design/look.

If the issue is that the drawing suggested you would get much more space then you physically can because the measurements are so off, rendering the design significantly different (eg not able to put a room in) then it's a design problem. If they have drawn in e.g. a bathroom that now won't fit then yes you have something to complain about.

They can't just draw a fantasy space that isn't possible to sell you the design then get off any consequences by claiming they didn't measure anything. That's dumb.

OP stated that he trades as a limited company. Which is why I mentioned Companies House. OP has subsequently confirmed that he is not listed on Companies House though.

Do you have legal cover on your insurance OP? Might be worth giving them a call. Did you advise them in advance that you're having building work carried out on the property?

If his paperwork has a limited company name on it then it should be registered at Companies House

What details are on the invoice that you paid?

So not a Ltd Co, not an Architect, just a con man? What now op? How can you make the best of a bad job here?

Plus, as pp said also what on earth was the builder doing, building willy nilly?

Once they realised how much the measurements were out the builder stopped (we were away for 2 weeks until yesterday). He contacted the engineer to see what can be done and they came up with ideas - that are a massive compromise on what it's supposed to be.
He didn't contact the 'architect' as he said that this is too big a cock up and complaint for him to wade in on without me seeing the issue first.

And yes on the CAD drawings there's a 1700 x 800 shower in the new space. Now we can barely fit a shower and even if we wanted not a chance would you get a bath in

Certainly sounding like he may not be a qualified architect. Hope something can be salvaged so you get enough space to have made it worthwhile.

@Howdidthathappen1 The builder should not have started work before they had detailed scaled drawings to work from. They obviously didn’t.

The engineer has worked from the cartoon your architect provided. Both are wrong. Was the structural engineer actually qualified? That’s another title that people give themselves. Did you appoint them? Who got building regs approval?

I think you have been given an off the shelf cheap design but wasn’t feasible and no “professional” has been close to professional in their actions or advice. You were there when the “architect” visited and you showed him the loft so where did he say the headroom could be achieved when he didn’t look at the roof construction? No architect can get away with approximate or not scale drawings for construction. Nor an engineer work on inaccurate not to scale drawings. I assume the roof cannot be altered?

@TizerorFizz you're exactly right on every point. I just didn't know that the impressive (to me) drawings with measurements on weren't what they were supposed to be.
The engineer is definitely qualified - recommended to us - it's a 2 stage build this being the 2nd bit - he visited when we did downstairs then did what he needed to do for upstairs without a 2nd visit - so that's obviously a fault as well - now I know.

On the drawings there's a disclaimer written stating not all measurements can be taken so assumptions have been made.

I'll see what he says today but we can't change the roof so it looks like it'll be what it is. I'm devastated but got my stoic head on and determined not to dissolve into a sobbing mess. Wouldn't mind if it was a bargain but we bought at the height of the no stamp duty COVID madness

TBD my builder didn't need precise drawings for the work I had done albeit internal. But this error appears to be fairly basic from this so called architect. The disclaimer is supposed to cover things like it's a few mm out so don't use it to get things like windows or Steels, they will need measuring again.
The Consumer Goods act covers services and these should be performed with reasonable care and skill. This does not sound the case and you can takenhim to the small claims court at least I'd have said. Not ideal but maybe recoup some of the extra costs.
Practically speaking could you vary the pitch of the roof slightly to give a bit more head room? And then put in a retrospective application to cover that?

Just sending hugs.

What a shitty situation you are in.

Presumably it's too far along to not make the changes and claw back down money instead?

Yes way too far along now.
We have joked this house is cursed for several months - either that or we are.

You're not the only one to be caught by these types that seems to be architects but in a risk fact only have a bit of training and now how to do cad drawings.

Happened to my pal. Guy messed up and wouldn't even send her the drawings she had paid thousands for that were supposed to be hers as he said they were his.

He wanted thousands to add one wall on. After he put her oil heating system on the wrong side of an outbuilding that was being split into her main plus one more house. It should have been on her side.
So she wanted the drawings that were initially promised would be all hers and now it's a drama.

His website looks legit and he talks a good talk. I asked him later if he was an architect and he said no. But everything about him implied yes!

I think the not all measurements can be taken so assumptions have been made disclaimer is fairly standard.

My understanding is it relates to there bring the possibility of several mm difference here and there, due to internal/external measures, imperfections etc. Its the architects way of making sure the builder actually measures stuff accurately on-site.

But what it doesn't relate to is massive differences in design.

Does your plan indicate room heights, with measures, that is totally incorrect? Or have the errors arisen from you incorrectly assuming floor space = full ceiling height?

Oh no! This sounds like a nightmare. It’s so hard when you don’t know how these things work, I don’t know about these things at all and would most likely make a similar mistake.

It's difficult to describe as my house is very weird! But yes there is a clear 2.4m opening from existing into dormer that was to be split to make a door from the bedroom and room to extend the bathroom the other side. The real space for the opening is 1.2m leaving us with having to move a wall to ensure a door way and create space for a far smaller shower.
Originally is would have been enough for a 1700 shower so in future either is or someone else could put in a bath if needed. Im now going to have a family home with a small ensuite size shower room as the main bathroom!

@Skillest Where the design is dependent on the roof structure and height being available, no one professional can guess. It’s vital they know what the structure of the roof is and whether putting in a huge dormer window can be achieved to produce the height needed. It’s just not acceptable that no one looked and made a professional judgement. It’s not down to the client to know the details of a design. Clients ask for something but professionals have to say it’s not possible if it’s not. How did the designer expect to fit the shower in? There must be plumbing and drainage in the design? Where are the building regs drawings? Has it got building regs approval @Howdidthathappen1 What drawings were submitted for that?

Should have added - that's what we have already re the bathroom situation - hence the extension.

I have built and extended multiple houses and always used an architectural technician- there is nothing wrong with using one as they can be great (just posting as the assumption on here seems to be that they are sub-par and the 2 that I have used have certainly not been and 1 was an expert on listed building /national park consent as well)

It’s difficult to know what this “architect”was. Technician can be ok but for complex roof alterations and use of space it’s often better to go with a Chsrtered architect if you are new to extending in a difficult loft and roof combination.

Good luck, OP. It sounds very frustrating.

Dd is an architect in training (so not finished her exams yet). It’s 7 years of training! I guess she could have packed in education after her degree or maybe before and called herself an architectural technician but the fact that an actual architect has to do 7 years of training and pass exams must surely mean they know what they’re doing more than someone who potentially hasn’t even a degree in the subject?

@CormorantStrikesBack This is a continuing issue in the building industry. We don’t know the difference between the qualified, the unqualified and use words like “engineer” to describe the person who repairs the dishwasher! Architect should mean chartered architect. Engineer should mean chartered engineer. Of course 7 years of training (engineers are similar) should mean a much higher standard of work. However not spending the money required for the best advice is rife so the fact no one understood this roof structure isn’t surprising. A roof matters and cutting into it for a dormer matters. Quality advice matters.

I’ve seen on MN education boards that the minute dc has an engineering degree they are described as an engineer. They are not. They are a graduate engineer with no professional qualification. It will take several more years for the grad to become chartered and they will have to do CPD. We describe important jobs loosely and then don’t get a professional job but anyone can say they are a technician.

'I'm now going to have a family home with a small ensuite size shower room as the main bathroom!'

OP, this is just awful for you. Is there any possibility that fakey architect man has any professional indemnity insurance cover whatsoever? His bodge job combined with the builder just bulldozing ahead without stopping to think a bit have together conspired to create a trail of disaster. Useless to say, I know, but our foreman two or three times spotted smallish errors (by comparison) in architect drawings and got us more height/wriggle room in a tight loft conversion. I think you need to get tough with both of them and challenge them to come up with something more creative?? Even if it means going back to planning? Is there any ppint posting your floorplans on here? There are some v experienced posters on the property threads...

@friskybivalves It’s not floorplans that are the big issue. It’s the construction of the roof limiting the dormer height. (I think!!!) . So what is needed is an evaluation as to whether the roof structure can be altered. If it’s trussed rafters it’s difficult and expensive to solve.