What happens when you accept the sellers threats?

[Tupster]

My "dream house" purchase has been steadily turning into a nightmare. The vendors are awful and I don't trust them at all. They want my money, but they don't want me to get a say on anything during the process. There's really crucial things that they literally won't give me answers to and we've reached a point where they have threatened to put the house back on the market rather than give me answers. I've been steadily reaching the end of my tether with them, and while I really, really want the house, the more they lie to me, the more I am expecting some major double-crossing to be planned for later down the line and even before their threat I was weighing up whether I should drop out of the whole thing. I'm sure they think they are just throwing their weight around and think I'll cave under an ultimatum, but actually when I saw the threat I just started looking for another property.

What is one actually supposed to do in these circumstances? Do I have to tell them "I'll take option B - you remarket the property" or do I just not do what they want and they have to follow through on their threat? I assume that they have to deal with the agent and not me. I'm not technically the one dropping out, so do I wait for their solicitor to contact us to say they've pulled out? I've already told my solicitor to do nothing more on the purchase until these issues were resolved, which clearly they won't be now, so she's not busy spending any more of my money at this stage.

Only problem with asking the vendors estate agents if they have any similar properties for sale is if they don’t!! In my experience the house I am trying to buy is usually the one I want!

True, but I meant it as OP firing a shot across the bow to show them that she is prepared to find something else.

We were the older downsizing couple who couldn’t find what we wanted and we did lose one buyer as a result but we were completely upfront about our situation our house was very sellable and in the end we found a buyer willing to wait for us. But we were completely clear about what we were prepared to do and there was no drama even if people were disappointed.

Its a nightmare, having to bend over for these people and they well know that a lot of couples are desperate. But they were unwilling to settle for anything less than what they wanted which, in the current market, doesn't exist, not in a town less than 2 square kilometres. They were chasing a unicorn while we were dreaming about finally trying for children - I'm disgusted that they wasted our time like this, and we're not exactly young!

Time is of the essence so our next search will include a stipulation that either the property is empty, or we're guaranteed a quick turnaround, and we'll want a date in writing that we are to close on before we sign anything. I'm not going through this heartache again and I hope the end is in sight for you too!

I have read, and commented on this thread, and can see how frustrated you are, but you are being very snippy in some of your responses, when many on here are trying to help. Many on MN have gone through difficult sales and purchases of property, and their experience may be able to assist you, but I have my doubts you are taking any of the suggestions on board.

I think you may be at the point where the decision may be taken out of your hands and the vendors do remarket the property - I expect they are as fed up of you as you are of them.

I would contact you solicitor and ask them one question "Are you happy with the legal position for me to continue with the purchase?". If they are, then you need to trust them and continue. If they say no, then I really would advise you not to continue with the purchase.

Property purchase and sales need everyone involved to look at the bigger picture basically you wish to buy a certain property, the vendors want to sell it - what does everyone need to do in order for that to proceed. Sometimes each side will not have the answers to particular questions, or one side thinks the information provided is not sufficient, but you look to your solicitors to advise you whether to proceed. At the end of the day the choice comes down to how much are you prepared to accept to buy a certain property and how much the vendor is prepared to accept to sell. Sometimes a compromise can be reached, sometimes not, normally due to one party not being prepared to accept that compromise, when that happens then that party should withdraw.

Just pull out. The only possible reason for them to withhold information is that you won’t like the answer. They are hoping that by pushing you to be as financially invested as possible before they land the bad news in the hope that you will go with the sunk costs fallacy and hang around waiting for them to sort whatever it is out.

Sometimes people don't answer because they are trying to hide information/faults.

And sometimes they don't answer because the questions are stupid.

You need to figure out which it is, bearing in mind it is probably your solicitor that is asking the questions in the first place, they are unlikely to be impartial on the matter.

You need to lower your expectations.

Signing the contract is irrelevant.

Expecting a property to be empty is going to make your property search incredibly hard.

What year was the drop kerb put in?

Some people do DIY jobs on dropped kerbs. If the dropped kerb was not made official, it is possible that you could be denied the right to park on your own drive way after the purchase, or have street furniture put in front of your DIY dropped kerb access. So yes it is an important consideration if you value your driveway parking. We have seen a couple on threads on it on here.

Only if you're completely naïve.

Which you clearly are.

Every time I've ever moved house the FIRST thing the professional services (estate agent/conveyancer) do is establish identity of the parties and right to ownership/sell - by way of evidence/documents - they have to do this for AML - this is BEFORE any searches etc are done. OP clearly has engaged a set of cheapo cowboys to act on her behalf.....well to not act on her behalf as seems to be the case.

You really haven't bothered reading the thread have you - just rocked along to throw random abuse at people.

I can see the frustration - I hate vendors like this, thinking they hold all the cards and issuing threats.

Huge red flag if they're withholding info as well as shutting down discussion.

Sometimes it's easier said than done to 'just pull out' especially when there's a chain.

But make sure you're putting yourself first too, and doing what's right for you. I feel for you - it's so stressful and consuming!

I’m surprised your solicitor has not advised you to withdraw, however I guess they get paid either way.

If the answer was a positive they would tell you. If they won’t tell you until further down the road then pull out.

This is not the solicitors fault at all - she has been very clear all along that we cannot exchange unless vendors do thing. My solicitor doesn't need to advise me to pull out because there is literally legally no exchange possible if thing isn't done.

However vendors had told me thing was done at the point of making offer, but refused to give evidence. It's become clear now that it isn't done and they expect me just to continue on the basis of the estate agent saying "they will do it" but refuse to give an answer as to when, how or give proof. Now it's "if you don't allow us to not do thing until we feel like (timelines unspecified) we are remarketing". At which point it's not a question of me "pulling out", it's a question that (a) is impossible, so they have to remarket.

In answer to my own question "what happens"... What happens so far is.
Weekend:
a/ I've started trying to work out a plan B, C, D etc. Are there other properties? Do I sell and try to rent while I look? Do I pull out of my sale and screw other people over this?
b/ I've notified my estate agent that there is imminent collapse in the chain. We've agreed to not tell the rest of the chain for a week while I have a bit of time to work on a.
Monday: I confirmed with solicitor that no more work to be done on sale or purchase for now. Double checked on what bits of conveyancing work may be transferable to a new property and in what circumstances.
Radio silence from estate agent, vendors and vendor solicitor.
Tuesday: Emailed estate agent to confirm if vendors had now remarketed and I could consider deal is totally dead so I can make decisions about my sale. Estate agent clearly pissed off said they hadn't and ranting that I knew there was an issue when I made my offer so I had no right to complain about anything. Angry email back from me pointing out that it isn't me withdrawing, the buyers are the ones that have put an impossible condition against a threat to remarket.

I'll keep the thread updated in case this is useful in future to other people in a similar dilemma.

I've had several estate agents send me properties that are vacant which I'm viewing this week.

Sounds like you've been incredibly reasonable, OP.

The best situation would be for the sellers to sort the issue (that they already told you was sorted...) and provide evidence.

To the poster saying your solicitor should advise you to withdraw - another one that doesn't understand the process.

It would be unprofessional for a solicitor to tell you to withdraw.

I have a fantastic solicitor I trust and have used him for multiple conveyancing transactions but even he wouldn't give an opinion like that.

He might word it a certain way...eg "this house is a high flood risk, under a flight path, with confirmed subsidence...please confirm you wish to proceed with exchange on X day...."

Super unprofessional agent ranting at you - absolutely not on. Are they a small local agent?

I don't see what good remarketing is going to do them. How can they expect to sell if they have this issue hanging over them?

Have you started looking elsewhere, OP?

@Mirabai, not hugely small, but definitely local. Property market is pretty stagnant in the area, so it's a big chunk of commission he's losing over this.

@Ellmau, this is the bit that completely baffles me. They are now in a position where everything that's come out since I made the offer makes the property essentially unmortgageable (unless they can prove otherwise - which is what I'm asking them to do). Every other estate agent I've spoken to says "It should never have been marketed with this issue unresolved". They'd be remarketing to cash buyers only - why would they think that's the best way to proceed?

not hugely small, but definitely local. Property market is pretty stagnant in the area, so it's a big chunk of commission he's losing over this.

But that’s his own fault isn’t it. He should never have listed it as is, or at least specified cash buyers only.

Just pull out @Tupster. These sellers are being difficult and obstructive and obviously don't want to address whatever the issue is. The estate agent also sounds rude and unprofessional. What is it that is stopping you from pulling out here? Do you see a happy resolution?

@rainingsnoring It's just that thing that this was the exact house I really wanted. I wasn't planning on moving and only put my house on the market to get this one, which is what has made me hang in this long. Now it's really just a matter of principle that although I have mentally/emotionally stepped away and accepted the deal is dead, I just really don't want to be the one that pulled out. I feel I've been super-reasonable over this and I don't want to give them the chance to just say "our bitch of a buyer pulled out". I want them to face up to the choices they made.

I've always been so careful to never never never issue ultimatums that I couldn't/wouldn't follow through with. Anyone who throws threats around to try and bully other people needs to know that the threat backfired.

These issues should be between the solicitors and you shouldn't have to get personally involved. If your solicitor thinks their questions are unreasonable (or vice versa) then they should respond accordingly. If they are threatening to put the property back on the market this is probably only because they think you are causing unreasonable delays which will affect the rest of the chain (if there is one). Don't cut your nose off to spite your face, just speak to your solicitor and the seller's estate agent to see what can be done to move things along. Why do you think they are lying to you?

@Tupster I’m so sorry for this situation. We were in this position a couple of years ago. We were super patient, waited months for them, and then they threatened to pull out. We couldn’t bend to the threat as the situation that had been uncovered made the property unmortgageable and we aren’t cash buyers.

What happened in our case is they just stopped answering all contact from their EA and their conveyancers never replied to ours after that point. I don’t believe they ever officially confirmed they were pulling out. All we had to show for it was emptier pockets and more wrinkles…

Unfortunately, it doesn't make any difference what you do now. You will still be 'that bitch of a buyer' and they still won't face up to their choices. It's very unusual that people do this, in general.
If your conveyancer is absolutely unable to resolve this issue and the sale can't proceed (from the information you have given), you need to pull out. I would write a pragmatic, short email explaining this. The more important question is whether to proceed with your sale or not.