Share of Freehold

[yumberto]

We own a share of freehold converted flat with downstairs neighbour . The neighbours are saying we can't build up into our attic as the leasehold won't alllow it. The downstairs owner have pointed out the leasehold says no change to the plan is permitted but I assumed as share of freehold we had the right to do it. If they don't agree is there anything I can do?

Is the share of the freehold 50/50?

Yes

We both have a share of freehold and then a leasehold too and the leashold is the thing that says no alterations

Sure Share of Freehold means 'all freeholders have to agree' not 'I have a share so can decide what I like'?

You would have to get the neighbour to agree to vary the terms of the lease (at your cost) for the work to be carried out.

Would you actually be able to build into the loft? I'm in an upstairs flat and we enquired with architects who said the ground floor needs enforcing with steel beams but we have no access as that is someone else's home.

I'm gutted. We had an architect draw up some plans but we didn't see a structural engineer. Other houses on our street have done it but they are full houses not converted into flats. It's the reason we bought the place as the agent really encouraged the share of freehold idea and suggested the attic conversion when showing us round. It's only when the downstairs neighbour has pointed out the leasehold restrictions that we were aware of a problem

The conveyancer or solicitor could have read this in the Lease, it's not really the neighbours responsibility

I think you neighbours are right. They and you jointly own the loft space just like they can’t just go and build a basement.
you could offer them money to allow a change of lease but personally I would never agree to this if I was them

I know someone in that scenario, and they ended up buying the bottom flat to extend. However, this must have been about 20 years after they bought the first flat, but it has all worked out well in the end.

Oh dear. Doesn't look good then if the only way of doing it is by buying the downstairs flat and giving yourself permission! It's fine as just me and dh at the moment but we would have liked to have a baby and still live here- it's a one bed flat and it would be fine whilst baby is small but we'd want it to have its own room eventually.

I didn't mention that's what we were thinking to the Solicitors so probably my fault

I would expect an estate agent to know what share of freehold means and to advise you to speak with a solicitor first, you would also see it in the Lease when you completed, don't let it put a downer on your new home though,

It's worth exploring if it's possible to do the conversion without affecting their flat, and then understanding the costs to compensate them and redo the lease. Once the paperwork is redrawn and works completed, it wouldn't affect any future sale for them, and could give them a nice one off windfall.

I have a share of freehold flat. There was an extension done about 20 years before I bought it. The lease was amended and a new floor plan added to the lease. (It was a ground floor extension so increased footprint.) I don’t know the costs involved but assume they were paid by the flat owner. It can be done but would involve getting a solicitor to quote for amending the lease and getting the owner downstairs to agree which they may do if a structural engineer can confirm that there would be no need to make changes / mess in their flat.
I can’t see that it would devalue their place in any way. You could offer them some compensation for the noise / inconvenience whilst building is in progress.

It shouldn't devalue their flat, but I think they could also reasonably ask for half of the OP's net profit from increasing the size of her flat. They have the upper hand in the negotiation, they'd be daft to hand it over for nothing.

That's just silly. The OP lives upstairs, it would be easy for her to make their life a misery by taking up all the carpets and stomping around in high heels.

Living in flats means making compromises to get along with the neighbours. Talk to them about amending the lease, OP, and see what they say. Obviously you will have to bear all the costs of amending the lease, and you'll have to bend over backwards to make sure you inconvenience them as little as possible, but it should be doable.

Maybe bear all the costs of the scaffolding and use the opportunity to redecorate the outside of the building, it is likely the lease says something about having to do that on a regular basis. If they benefit from a reduced cost for that, they may be more amenable to cooperation.

If the attic is not demised to you then the freeholder owns in - ie both you and your neighbour.

If you want to add it to your property then the freeholder (ie you and your neighbour) needs to agree and possibly compensated for loss of property. If I was your neighbour I would not be impressed by you doing an attempted landgrab on communally owned property.

You all need legal advice and to understand the separate rights and responsibilities you both have as leaseholders and freeholders.

Who does the attic space belong to. Was it included in your flat. If its common space would you need to buy it separately

Assuming the loft is demised to you - and this is absolutely something the conveyancing solicitor should have alerted to you during the sale - then it's worth speaking to your downstairs neighbour and seeing if you can negotiate a price that will tempt him to change the lease. It will be annoying but probably cheaper and less disruptive than moving.

We were in a similar situation, share of freehold except we were ground floor. We allowed our neighbours upstairs to have the attic space demised to them and in return they offered to pay for a new roof while doing their attic conversion, and take on full responsibility for ongoing roof maintenance. They also paid both our legal fees for the changes to the lease.

We got on well with them so wouldn't have wanted to charge them, but when we sold the estate agent said it's standard for the value added to the newly extended upstairs flat to be calculated then 50% of that paid to the other freeholder.

@Youreavirginwhocantdrive how much were you inconvenienced by having the work done if you were the downstairs flat?

We could consider giving 50% of the increased value to downstairs but probably wouldn't be able to afford to do the work then, so would be in a bit of a catch 22.

The neighbour said they were not going to give us permission for anything so I guess was just hoping that they weren't in a position to stop us doing it but it looks like that's not going to be possible.

I guess they are set in their ways and don't want the noise or agro.

I recommend never trusting a word estate agents say with regard to extensions etc , they will say anything and just want the sale over the line to gain their fee. Take anything like that to your solicitor /seek specialist professional advice and fully understand all the fine print.

Well they had to use our garden for their scaffolding, and due to being mid terrace they had to actually bring some of the poles through our flat which I wasn't exactly happy about.... plus lots of noise for months, and a shared electricity and water source which had to be turned off at times. So yes, we were inconvenienced. But we liked them, and they were cooperative when we renovated (albeit much less of an upheaval for them).