Replacing patio doors

[WobblyLondoner]

We're exploring what options we have when it comes to replacing our current patio doors and I'd welcome some advice.

The current doors are wooden French patio doors. They were what I could afford when the kitchen was done 18 years ago but they were pretty cheap and are now very rotten. The door sticks and I worry the lock could jam at any time. Originally we were going to replace them at the same time as a kitchen refurbishment but DP was diagnosed with cancer last year and is in the middle of chemo - so that is all now on hold. However I don't think we can avoid sorting out the doors.

Ideally we don't want to have to have any major building work as part of this (in a different world I'd go much wider but that's not an option we want to look at now). So we're looking for something that can be installed as easily as possible. We'd rather metal than wood or uPVC.

But ... the dimensions of the current door (or rather the opening) are 2045 high and 1765 wide and I'm really struggling to find something to fit. I contacted Velfac who had been recommended by a friend and they came back with two options - one a bit narrower, and one a bit lower - neither of which were very appealing. I've contacted this company too and am waiting to hear back: https://theheritagewindowcompany.co.uk/. Any other recommendations very welcome.

I'm also a bit unclear what the door companies will do when it comes to installation - I assume they would expect to come and find an aperture that exactly matches the door they have produced, and then install it? So any widening, decreasing etc would need to be done by a builder? That makes me nervous too - I'd much rather just pay one provider to do everything.

Sorry - I feel a bit clueless about the whole thing. Worries about DP are taking up most of my time and energy and this feels like a final thing on top. Perhaps we could just put it off a bit longer but am worried we may not have much choice if the whole door seizes up. Any thoughts or experience very welcome.

Personally I wouldn't spend too much on your ideal doors if you think there is a chance you might want to remodel the space later. I would go to a local UPVC window / door supplier and get them to measure the existing space so you don't have to mess about with changing the size of the opening, or spend too much on something that is a compromise / interim solution. (I don't understand why the other companies don't make them to fit the space though, TBH.)

Thanks very much @ClematisBlue49. Just to clarify - we were not thinking we'd change the doors if we remodeled the kitchen - we'd want to keep whatever we commit to now.

How about powder-coated aluminium? They are smarter than UPVC, widely available and can be made to fit the space AFAIK. My friend has some and they look great.

How about these guys. (I havent used them, just did a search for you)

https://www.marlinwindows.co.uk/london-french-doors.html?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqdqvBhCPARIsANrmZhPRaBEJQaT8lr2ZhX5cnsmykVlbRNKT9Q4vc6XEehHOScwz6Fq_WAQaAm5CEALw_wcB

they are made to measure and they say they can install too

With lots of companies you can order custom dimensions, so you don’t need to go off the shelf in terms of the stocked sizes. These are the guys I used, and the korniche bifolds I got for my garden room are brilliant - aluminium and incredibly easy to install.

https://www.gfdhomes.co.uk/korniche-aluminium-bi-folding-doors

The Korniche 3 pane is what I have and if you scroll down the page you can quickly generate a quote based on the dimensions you need. If you can’t get it quite to the mm it doesn’t matter. When installing the door frame you are supposed to leave 10mm or so around the frame which you then pack and fill with expanding foam or similar. So for your situation you could go with 2020 high and 1750 wide as an example and it would just get packed to fit in. You then just need make good the finish which you could do with cladding, external plaster, whatever.

For the second part, you would need to find your own installer if not doing yourself as yes, the door companies will largely only supply though Everest and the such have their own team I believe. It’d be a days labour for two guys so depending on the part of the country £500 upwards I’d guess. Totally get that with your husband being ill this isn’t something you want to DIY, but if you have any handy friends this really isn’t a complex job. Taking the old door out will just be a case of unscrewing and a bit of force where needed. Putting the new one in just takes a bit of careful measuring to get it plumb and then a drill and some screws.

This guy has some excellent 'how to fit patio doors' videos. He does it in a garden room, however the principle is the same. He also uses a supplier who are very reasonably priced.

In your position, replacing wood with something less load bearing, you need to check you have a lintel over the outer skin of the brick. This will be visible from the outside, either as a concrete looking block across the frame above where the door is, or as what looks like a thin steel bar above the door frame.

Measure the width in three places, top, middle and bottom. Take the shortest of the three and subtract 20mm. Do the same for the height, left right and middle, then take the shortest measurement and subtract 20mm. That gives you the measurements you need to send to the supplier. Make sure you tell them that this is the aperture, so they can account for any door cill.

This chap has many videos, if not this one, you may need to rummage in his channel. I built a garden room using his plans, they're excellent.

Yup that’s the bloke I watched too to learn. To correct you however, the wood won’t be load bearing, none of the door frame will be. You are correct in that there will be an either a steel or concrete lintel above the current doors, but the door frame itself will be holding zero load so that isn’t a consideration.

It shouldn't be load bearing I agree, but it depends on a few things, mainly who has done what previously. My house had no lintels, and the windows and doors were all originally wooden frames which were load bearing. Someone replaced them with upvc which is definitely not load bearing and they all warped.

I have had to put lintels in to every window and the patio doors.

Fair enough. OP how old is your house / was the existing door frame installed new in an extension etc? If less than 50 years old it will pretty much guaranteed have a lintel.

This is my exact current issue too! My space is 1.8m wide by 2.5m high. Having to compromise and go for anthracite grey french doors as all the composite door/side panel options look so lame.

Mine was built early 70s incidentally, so on the cusp, and very poorly built judging by what else I've found 🤣

Oh thanks everyone - this is very helpful. It's a Victorian house and the current doors were installed when we had the kitchen done just under 20 years ago, with a brick lintel (see photo).

There are some good suggestions here about companies which I'll take a look at. This is way (way) beyond my DIY skills!

I would normally expect the lintel to go beyond the expanse of the door and to sit on each side of the door, however the fact that you have a soldier course is encouraging.

You would be really surprised about how easy it is to fit patio doors, and indeed windows. It will save a reasonable amount of money (although it shouldn't.

If you decide to do it yourself, I would recommend getting a proper foam gun (£20), inflatable bags (£15) to hold it the frame in place while you level, and proper glass suction cups (£20) to lift the glass panels. If you don't have a drill / screwdriver, they are also inexpensive from FFX or D&M Tools.

If getting someone in they may want to put a lintel support in whilst they’re at it. Looking at that I don’t think anything would collapse if you took the door out as the wood at the top is way too thin to be giving any significant structural support, but as you’re not going to DIY it then your fitter can advise. If you do need structural advise then you’re going to significantly add to the cost as you’ll need an engineers report and then any works that they advise. Steel beams themselves aren’t more than a couple of hundred quid for something that size, bit the labour could add up. Thing with old houses as I’ve found with our Victorian terrace is that you start something and then uncover another 101 things that need doing at the same time!

Apologies redirecting an old thread. Interested in the patio doors, Did you put in a lintel + replace with new upvc doors or can you put in steel/reinforced patio doors and no lintel?
also do you need planning permission for this? how long did it take and if you don't mind how much did it cost roughly just for patio doors? Not sure the process on how to get started. Thanks so much!

I am a bit belt and braces, although did things in stages. Over the patio door, I installed a lintel to relieve the pressure on the door. I put a concrete lintel in due to the width of the door, otherwise it would have needed an RSJ. Then I replaced the upvc patio door with a wooden French door.

Upstairs, I have dormer windows (no brick above the window), so I had the whole aperture rebuilt with a wooden lintel and again put timber windows, so again belt and braces.

Downstairs, I've put steel lintels in.

As far as cost goes, the upstairs was part of a larger roofing job, so difficult to separate the cost of the lintels.

The patio door I did myself, as I have acro stands and strong boys.

One of the downstairs windows and the front door were not expensive. The door was an add on to further work, so was about £200, and the window was similar.

I will do the remaining 3 windows myself. It isn't difficult, and would take about half a day per window. The door took a bit longer, and I needed help to lift the lintel.

If you get someone else to do this, make sure you specify that the cavity tray needs to be inspected and replaced if necessary, and weep vents installed.