Poor value standard of living in London

[frakl]

Dh and I are lucky to earn well. We earn about 50k a year. We are fortunate to earn that and to not worry much about money or the like.

We have to be close to the office as work very long hours.

We are increasingly fed up with London and realising it isn’t worth it. We work 12 hour days in high stress office jobs and all we can afford is a 1 bed flat and modest savings. We live relatively well day to day, holidays, nice food.

But on 50k a year that I worked so hard to get to, I thought I’d be living a much better life than I am

Thing is, you can't have a typical suburban life in inner London. If you want the whole big house and garden life then you need to leave London.

The OP has sacrificed size of property for proximity to work. That may change as she get older and is happier to commute but comparing what you can get property wise in London with cheaper parts of the country is a recipe of disatisfaction and misery.

Yes if we sell our two bed flat we could probably buy a four bed house in some parts of the country .... but we don't want to live there so what is the point of angsting about it? We don't need a bigger place anyway, there are only two of us and we can only can only be in one room at a time!

@NonmagicMike I'm surprised. We always felt so safe in Putney and I started in a flat on the Hill, then a little house near Felsham Road and a family home between the river and Lower Richmond Road. We had one burglary which was a catalyst along with the baby to move to our family home. Someone once opened the car doors and had a good rifle round and I'm sorry to say, didn't nick anything - my sunglasses weren't good enough! I also had either a spare tyre or catalytic converter nicked from a French car. From 1995 to be fair we were alarmed and had osp but wouldn't have had smart cars until we moved.

@Ginmonkeyagain Putney was suburbia in the 80s. Wimbledon was miles out!

DS and DIL have been renting a teeny, tiny one bedroom flat near the Oval, initially for £1,700pcm, latterly for £1,900pcm. They have loved being central. However, DS has got a job in the North of England and they will be able to buy a family home.

Yeah but fancy suburbia. Putney and Wimbledon haven't been affordable to people on ordinary incomes for years.

We moved to z3 at some point when I was young & that was considered suburbia but on here if you call an area of London suburbia it really triggers some people 🤷🏻‍♀️

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a flat but nowadays I do think it’s not the best choice for everyone. Obviously depends on age & whether you want a house or not. A few of my younger colleagues bought post Brexit, some bought flats in z2/3 & some bought houses in z4/5 & the ones in flats who want to move are now struggling to trade up to the house because house prices have increased more than flats & stamp duty etc. My brother just bought his first property, a small house in z3/4, a decade ago he would have gone for a flat (as I did) but he & his wife want to try for dc asap. It’s really very difficult for younger people.

@Ginmonkeyagain an honest question, why do you type "yeah" when it is quicker to type yes and yes is correct. Are you trying to be ironic in a way I don't understand?

Actually, in the early 80s a couple on relatively ordinary money could make a start in Putney if they started with a flat. My first flat was £32k for two beds, gge and parking space. It was a stretch as a single person and I needed a lodger to make ends meet but it would have been a breeze for a couple on a combined income of £14k. I was on £9k when I bought it. I was very lucky to have a deposit (for sad rather than privileged reasons) because the highest mortgage I could get was £23k. 2.5 times income.

I'm just typing like I speak - it's an informal conversational style suitable for a chat forum🤷‍♀️.

I mean - yes - I'm sure Putney may have been affordable for ordinary people in the 80s, lots of places were - but it is 2024. So kind of irrelevant to people buying in London now.

an honest question, why do you type "yeah" when it is quicker to type yes and yes is correct. Are you trying to be ironic in a way I don't understand?

this is a weird thing to notice! 😆

This attitude is exactly the problem. 450k absolutely will get you a 2-3 bed house in many parts of south east London, which very much are still London despite being further away and not having a tube. They’re not as badly connected as people think though, often the trains into central stations take about 10 minutes. Not gentrified doesn’t mean grotty, either. Scruffier to look at, perhaps, yes, and not exclusively populated by middle class white people, but that doesn’t mean it’s dangerous or bad. Where I live in SE is hands down the friendliest community I’ve ever lived in. 12 mins into London Bridge. I bought a one bed flat solo when earning 45k in 2021 so a joint income of 100k would get you a house round here. But I also don’t personally think living in a flat = a poor standard of living. It’s what you make it.

yes, and not exclusively populated by middle class white people, but that doesn’t mean it’s dangerous or bad.

It’s quite depressing how so many people do think the above. Many crow about London diversity but they mean the authentic deli type of diversity 😆

@TedMullins "grotty SE London" solidarity!

Right, so you admit you can buy a decent home for 500k in London, just not in your preferred area. That’s not a case of “only one bed flats available” it’s just being a snob. That isn’t to say London property is on the whole ridiculously priced - it is. But I wish people would stop pretending more affordable options don’t exist because of their own prejudices.

Good grief. You’re not “income challenged”. It’s staggering to me that you’re basically saying you didn’t care about the poor until you felt your own money didn’t go as far as you wanted. Many of us have been out here voting for governments that help the least fortunate for years, even when the policies might disadvantage us.

London is cheek by jowl. The £4 million house, often a hop and skip away from LA housing that houses those in real poverty if they are first in family to live there.

The sale of council houses was a retrograde step and even as a tory something I didn't agree with. Let's take Putney as an example. The classic Dover House Estate - nice brick built small family houses are almost entirely owned now having been sold on by their original purchasers to a more middle class demographic. Not far away is the Alton Estate, many bought for BTL, not by individual landlords but largely by professional landlords who own 200 to 300. They are let to students and fairly recent immigrants, with large Eastern European cohort.

It used to be possible for ordinary working people to rent social housing in London: bus drivers, mechanics, window cleaners, hospital auxiliaries, hairdressers, etc. All people thar London desperately needs.

I have always cared about the poor but sadly many people don't until it affects them.. Now it affects them, I am hopeful for change.

£50k each means you should, together, be bringing home £6k+ per month.

You could rent a 3 bed with garden in parts of zone 3 for around £2.5k and still be in the city in half an hour. After bills, that leaves c.£3k/month for savings and fun times.

I really don’t see the problem?

The problem is if & when they want a family.

At best, it will get you a small 3 bed ex council in Peckam, nothing wrong with that but not inspirational either for someone like OP busting her ass 60hours a week. Since this is the topic, those were given away to low income families few decades ago so you can see what she may feel this way.

The 10 minutes to central London remind me of those marketing in the tube with only train moving time factored in. Doesn’t mention commute to the station, which often involves buses hence traffic at this price point, waiting on a plateform and following tube journey, and the usual buffer for delays at any steps. Likely to need a car around London SE as well which will further reduce her budget.

Ha ha! £500k will not get you a three bed house in Peckham. Peckham is now very gentrified. We left Peckham in 2015 as we could not afford to buy there.

The OP may be working hard but £50k is not a big wage for a 60 hour week and it is certainly not the sort of wage that buys a larger flat very close to the centre.

BUT it is the kind of wage that can get a respectably sized flat or small house in zones 3/4 SE London which is a reasonably short commute into the centre.

Well you aren’t going to get a mansion in London on that salary, though clearly if you moved further out you could afford something better. Mind you, you would then possibly be somewhere that shuts down at five o’clock , where you are miles away from decent shops, restaurants, theatres, public transport, museums, art galleries……………

You don’t need a car. I live a 5 minute walk from the station. I’m not talking the depths of Croydon so far out it’s basically Surrey. Peckham is very trendy and desirable now so you wouldn’t get a 3 bed house there but I’m not sure why people equate house size with quality of life/aspiration anyway - surely the whole lifestyle is what matters? You may get a bigger house outside London but would you have a better life if you had no friends there, worse career prospects, less to do and see, and had to pay extra to run a car or commute into London? It’s only on mumsnet that I’ve encountered this obsession with 4 bed detached houses and belief that anything below that is an uninhabitable hovel.

I hate how so many of these “can’t afford London” threads basically boil down to “can’t afford to live in an exclusively white area of London”.

Yep, nailed it

I have purchased and lived in five properties. Four of the five were a 5 to 10 minite walk from the tube or station. One was 15/20 and I felt very cut off, nowhere was "nippable", not even a corner shop. In the context of exclusive it was in Wimbledon Village. It was a nice house, I didn't like the location - and as someone posh, it was too posh in an affected way.

There isn't a nippable shop here (Surrey) bit the station is only 6 minutes on foot and the green open spaces and 1/2 acre, and drive, etc., make up for it.

@CultOfTheAirFryer there are only eight houses and they are all nudging £2m. I'm pleased to tell you that only three are occupied by white families.

Hmm I doubt an exclusively white area of London exists so I’m pretty sure that’s not what people mean when they talk about good parts of London. It’s more areas that have decent shops/cafes/restaurants, a nice green space nearby, good schools & decent transport links.

People living in London generally like living in a multicultural area & I can’t even think of one area that is exclusively white.

South East London is your friend OP.