Converting one bed to two bed flat - help please

[skuml]

We are in the process of deciding how to convert our one-bedroom rental flat in London into a two-bedroom space.

plan involves dividing the long living room (7.369m ; 24.ft). Wondering what would be an appropriate size for the second bedroom. Would dimensions of 3.96 x 2.6m (12.99 X 8.5 ft) m suffice for a comfortable double bedroom? Any advice or insights would be greatly appreciated.

We have concerns that the living room might not be sufficiently spacious, and we fear that the flat could lose its roomy ambiance. Would a living room size of 4.57m (14.99 ft) be large enough to maintain the desired spacious feel?

We are refurbishing rest of flat too - building is charging a lot! wondering is conversion worth doing? anyone had similar experience?

many thanks in advance !!

Yes great suggestion ! many thanks!

Kitchen 3.9 X2.4 is smaller compared to new room that will be created
plus lost more cost to move kitchen - its solid concrete floor

Wondering would a combi boiler would be enough for two bedroom bathroom?? water pressure would be ok??
Should I go for storage type combi boiler?

Why bother? Rent you get won’t cover some of these expensive alterations. Are you expecting a big uplift in price? Open plan is normal for flats. I own one and so does DD. Unless you are certain you will get your money back, I’m not sure I’d take walls out! Concrete ones? Not a great idea. Are you sure an internal wall is concrete?

excellent question.... we have been thinking about it too.

This is an excellent one-bedroom unit in a spacious development with full gating and parking facilities.
However, considering the single-bedroom setup, it's challenging to significantly increase the rent, especially since we're already at the highest rate for the area.
On the other hand, opting for a two-bedroom configuration could potentially bring in an additional 200-300 per month, and we're hopeful that professional couples might choose to stay longer.

the development is 30 years old, and while the bathroom is still fully functional, it's starting to show signs of age. To stay competitive with newer builds in the area, a bathroom refurbishment might be needed sometime.

Looking at the big picture, our plan is to keep the flat indefinitely for our retirement.
What would you do if would have this flat as long term investment?

Yes still confused though - as builder has give 16K quote just for labour!

Current plan is this -- so that we dont remove any walls except one small wall - taking extra space from storage and add shower in existing cloak room

Making extra room by dividing living room
Refurbishing ensuite.
new boiler, mega flow or combi boiler.

With so many structural walls and concrete the costs will be huge and will over run budget. You need to calculate how much of an uplift you will get for the spend.
16K in labour, plus materials, skip hire, down time on rent...it might take months.
I'm not sure it is worth it.

yes costing a lot!
Is worth it for 200-300 monthly increase in rent.

But we do want to keep this flat forever! and in good condition so that we get good professional tenants

Have you contacted the freeholder to see if they will allow changes to the structure?
Where do upper and lower flats services run ?

If it costs say £25k, that will take ten years to pay back at £200 a month.

If you have a mortgage on it, how much would that reduce your interest payments by?

Do you want to live in such a small living room when you live there?

hmmm I am another one who is not sure it’s as financially attractive as you think…

Okay let’s say it’s an extra £250 pm…

even just based on £16k for labour only… it’s 5.3 years to wipe your face….

add in actual materials you are looking at what? 8-9years for break even as you also have to account for the 4-6m rent on a one bed due to
building works

if you must… I’d also do a Y angled door way configuration for the bedroom and living room rather than a l configuration

yes, we contacted the building management. We are not changing much just adding another wall to make a bedroom.
they are ok with changes!

hmmm yes Living room will be on smaller side than I am used to.

Yes you are right! we thought about that too.... we are also thinking the other way - this 25K investment will give us 250-300 ( 10% return) forever. At the moment, money sitting in bank and only get 4, max 5%.

We havent calculate mortgage wise- we want to keep whatever we are paying so that hopefully in 15 years we can retire and this flat flat will be our pension !
That time we wont have disposable income as we have now - fixing will lot more expensive then too

The question is - When should we refurbish flat? Now or later? And another question is does it make sense to make another bedroom in living room so that it attracts couple with a baby/toddler?

yes true!!

Y angle door - good idea- will work out if an do it.

Not being awkward, just challenging your thinking about all your options 😁Are you going to live in it or rent it out forever?
If you will live in it.
If you retire in 15 years, after you have adjusted for costs, that's only 5 years of payment at £200 it would be 12K. That's with no gaps in tenancy.
If you have the ability to overpay the mortgage, that's going to give a much greater return than 12K.
In 15 years time it will all need a complete refresh, bathroom/kitchen anyway and maybe then would be a better time to look at the flat, the market and what is the best way to move forward.

Have you spoken to an estate agent? adding the second bedroom will compromise the living room, having such a small living room wouldn't work with a child, it might work for two professional sharers, but it's never going to be attractive to a family. A couple would usually prefer a bigger living room too.

Seriously I would ONLY add in the internal wall to make a 2nd bedroom that is smaller than the suggested one. A double bed could go in front of the window. Don't bother with the shower room.

You state you want to attract couples that would remain if they then had a baby.

That 2nd bedroom would make a great office, guest room or a large nursery/childs bedroom.

When you have to refurbish the current ensuite you could move the door to the hallway to make it a family bathroom.

You need to minimise the cost to make it financially viable.

Agreed on the above - if not for you to live in then leave the cloakroom with a loo only and appeal to a single / couple / young family.

The monthly uplift in rent doesn’t make it viable. You would need an uplift in prices of flats. You can easily fit an office space into the actual living room. It doesn’t need to be separate. Couples might start in this flat but with a child, move on anyway if it’s small. What’s the sq ft? There’s something very nice about a decent sized lounge diner. WFH is more pleasant in a bigger space. My DDs do it in flats!

If you have money, put it into a pension scheme. Don’t assume you will make money on this project.

Not what you’ve asked here but it’s also worth noting that your changes to the flat which you want to result in a change in the type of tenants will also have other implications worth considering. I let out a one bed flat and a two bed flat. The former is much more stable and tends to let for fairly long periods, to professional couples, and causes little bother. The latter is very different: when it’s occupied by two sharers, they tend to be young, and turnover is often yearly because sharers tend to be less fixed in their plans and lifestyles. When it’s occupied by parents and children, wear and tear increases significantly and I do a lot more small repairs throughout the tenancy and redecorating at the end of the tenancy.

You’re thinking only about extra rent each month and not extra costs incurred. Add those and the renovation will likely take a lot longer to pay back than you think.

I had a reveal flat where the large lounge had folding doors hskf way along so you could separate off one area into a bedroom or sat a study.

Was perfect for me on my own for when I had guests. And now people work from home.

Easy to do as just one big wooden structure to add bro the lounge. It looks like that end only has 1 small window anyway. So not ideal for 2 equal renters.

Our 2 bed flat has a combi boiler and no problems with water pressure.

We had a combi in a 3 bed house 2 adults and 4 kids it was fine.

yes great suggestion - smaller room so that living room is also big enough!

Many thanks to you all ! helping me to think in various way :)

oh ok!! great point !! Yes i havent taken that point in consideration!

I just have this one bed flat for rental so I have no experience with renting to families! Was hoping that families will stay longer ... couple seem to leave every 1.5 year or so!

many thanks :) ! All this is making us rethink --- we have asked builder to give us 1-2 days extra to think!! We might just make a small bedroom and nothing else!
a deep cleaning will make bathroom, kitchen look good !

total 750 sq ft -it is a super spacious one bed for london. Plus with patio, great outlook to garden.

Yes previous tenants (couple) used to work from home - one from living room , one from bedroom.

What should we do to uplift value?? Fully refurbishing ensuite bathroom - hopefully it will increase value too?

Thats great suggestion! It will reduce the cost quite a lot as it involves lot of work!!

Yes, we have paused the builder to start work - thinking just to make a smaller bedroom and leave everything as it is ! Deep clean and start showing it perspective tenants !