What is going on with this loft conversion

[NotAgain77]

Been to see a house we really like. There's something off about the stairs up to the loft conversion. The pitch seems wrong and they cross the window of the floor below. Also in the loft the velux is at a funny height and in a crawl space not a main part of the room.

Been on council planning/ building regs records and plans for a loft extension were submitted in early 2000s plans refused but the loft built. This might not be the full picture. It was done before the current owners bought it.

The house would work for us on many many levels. And the garden is a fantastic size. But we don't have 80k to rectify a dodgy loft conversion.

My questions are -

It isnt right to have done the loft stairs across the window is it? Is this ever allowed?
How would we know if the loft conversion is safe or not, before purchase?

Have you seen the building regs ?

I've not asked if the seller has any paperwork for the loft and not checked with the council to see what they hold. No.

I guess if the loft was safe ie joists done to hold the weight etc and it was just the stairs to sort, if they even could be sorted, then we'd consider it at a reduction. But I wouldn't entertain it with some indemnity assurance.

Our stairs to our loft conversion do something similar. It was done by previous owners so I don't know what conversations were had, but the window is still openable and the loft conversion had planning permission. So at some stage, these were permitted, even if not now. Not sure about your velux though.

So, do you think the stairs are unsafe? The aesthetics of them look ok. Landing windows are pretty pointless.

Fine for the stairs to go across the window. Building regs say you need 2m head height above stairs though

Surely your surveyor will flag this if deemed a problem.

The stairs were put in that spot, over existing stairs to avoid taking up space in the existing upstairs rooms.

Definitely see if BR sign off exists. Surveyor will inspect what they can see bur ofcourse can't see what's underneath so the survey can only go so far. Our solicitor requested the sign offs BR for the extension on our bungalow. Good luck.

We just had our loft conversion done, and the stairs are exactly like this. It has been signed off by building control.

Thanks, everyone. Really helpful to get your take on this. @anicecuppateaa really interesting to hear yours has been done recently and cuts across the window.

Thanks @DesparatePragmatist good point that the regs were different then.

@BananaPie re 2m.head height. That would apply to between the two sets of stairs as well? I noticed the stairs on the walk out of the property when I felt I had to lean back slightly to get down them. Then I noticed the window.

No issue with the stairs crossing a window unless it is a fire escape which it won’t be. As for the velux, nothing illegal or dodgy I imagine so will be down to whether you can live with it or not. Can maybe be moved at a later date depending on roof space. If the conversion was done some 25 years ago, there will be no recourse now for building regs to demand it’s altered as outside of the window of enforcement which was off the top of my head four years but now has changed to ten. Nothing to stress about here in my view.

stairs crossing the window is not a problem. Alternative would have been to brick it up, and personally I'm with whoever did it, the bit of remaining light is worth having. The main building regs to look out for on stairs are 2m head height above every step, and tread and riser sizes.

"How would we know if the loft conversion is safe or not, before purchase?"

Same way you assess any other part of a house, with conveyancing checks and a survey.

Planning permission is different to building regs.
You can build a loft without planning permission under "permitted development", providing it meets certain criteria (this would need to be checked)
However, any significant building work requires building regulations approval to make sure it's done properly so don't just check the planning register but also contact the local council building regulations team.

It isn't right to have done the loft stairs across the window is it? Is this ever allowed? My neighbours have this and their loft got all the right permissions at the time (c. ten years ago). Looks a mess though.

Stairs crossing window is fine - houses with loft conversions have that around here.

The head height looks really low for the lower flight, unless its the angle of the photo?

The ceiling height on the middle floor looks low. is this an ex-council 1980s semi detached house by any chance? There are a lot near me and the ceilings are 2.4m but the loft is low. I've seen some with loft room ceiling height of only 2m!. others have lowered the middle floor ceilings to 2.2 to 2.3m. Anything below 2.4m is too low for me.

With the stairs over the window: I think there is a building regulation about opening windows needing to be 1.2m above floor level (even if it pre-dates current building regs that is a sensible safety thing). So is that window fixed shut and with toughened glass? It looks like they have plasterboarded over it on the upper flight of stairs . How does the window / stairs combo look from outside?

I hate it when loft conversions are poorly done, but budgets mean compromises. Do check the legality of the loft room before spending too much on the buying process.

Thank you. This is all so helpful.

It does, doesn't is @Magatha. I think I need to go back and have another look.

It a 1930s house. Not sure on ceiling height but we are in an Edwardian at the mo with massively high ceilings, and I don't recall the ceilings on the middle floor feeling particularly low. I can't remember about the top floor.

I am nervous as we paid for a full survey on this current house and essentially it told us nothing. It just said, I think this but it is not legally binding. So I feel the survey process is slightly a waste of time/money. Will definitely find out about building regs.

Ot might be the angle the photo is at, but, they look low to the stairs below. I don't mind that they cross in front of a window, but, they don't look great, imo. The pitch does look weird. I'd not rush to buy unless you absolutely have to and there's nothing else anywhere, because that niggle you have about it isn't going to just disappear.

something else to consider is getting furniture up if the stairs are restricted. ours have one point on a turn where there is a slightly lower head height (v old house so pre building regs etc) and we have to have flat pack only and getting a king size mattress up was an ordeal

@NotAgain77 You need to know when this work was done. Building regs have required stair cases to comply with fire regulations for some time. Many many years. So you must check building regulations.

Secondly, this loft may not be classed as a habitable space. If it doesn’t meet BR it’s not habitable and cannot be classed as a room. So you need to find out whether it meets BR for a habitable space or not. If it’s not technically habitable and contravenes fire regs (have doors been replaced with fire doors, can loft be closed off with a fire door?) you should pay less. It’s not a room, it’s a loft.

In every house with a loft conversion in our road of 1920s / 30s semis the loft stairs cut across the side window. It’s normal.

I would want the paperwork for the conversion, or if any doubts, get a structural survey on the loft conversion.

No comments on the legality but I would be a bit worried about what you said about having to lean back slightly as you went down the (lower?) stairs. That's a bit risky and could result in you falling unless you are very steady on your feet.

I agree the pitch does look wrong. I wonder if the loft isn't high enough to support stairs at the same pitch as the lower ones so they made them shallow. Can you stand up without bending once you get to the top of the loft stairs?

I think the suggestion to get a survey done on it is a good one, or possibly have a builder look at it to see what options there are.

Thank you! These are such helpful points.

We are going back with a tape measure. I wonder if we could find a builder to come also.

Loft plans were filed in 2001. But declined. I believe (from the council portal) that the build happened that year.

I don't imagine I can get the info from the council directly about building regs, outside of the conveyancing process I mean. I am not happy to spend any money until I know about building reg sign off. We could ask the EA but I don't really trust they'd give a straight answer.

And no I am not steady on my feet. Very clumsy in fact as have form for falling down stairs.

The requirements for habitable lofts is readily available. If the staircase isn’t legal, it’s not a habitable loft. It’s just a loft. Do you want to sleep in one with unsuitable access and possibly not meeting fire regs?

Look at www.planningportal.co.uk Type in loft conversion and all the relevant info is there. You need to look at stair design, fire doors, headroom/space, insulation and other safety amd building aspects. If it doesn’t match up, it’s not habitable space and should not be sold as such. Sometimes PP is required and this depends on the project. Can you look at the plans submitted for PP and see if it was built anyway? If so, I would not buy it. Why was it refused? You can ask for building control approval documents.