What to bid

[InstantKarnage]

Hi all, seeking your thoughts on a property conundrum and where to start bidding. We're looking at a fairly niche property on the market at £975k, it’s been on for 4 months, and no offers. The property is a standout for us - the nicest we've seen - but the area isn't our top choice. We're a bit uncertain about what to offer - nothing similar has sold recently in the area. DH thinks it’s offensive to offer anything beginning with an 8. I’m not sure. What would consider offensive here, what would you consider cheeky, and what would you consider reasonable or at least borderline? Not looking for a valuation on the property, as I say it’s fairly niche so difficult to value. But if it were your property, and you believed it to be “worth” £975k - what would you be offended to be offered! We’re trying not to alienate the seller, but also trying to find the market. We said to the estate agent that we’re worried about the lack of offers, that we don’t know the market without other bidders. We would like to make a low offer to see if we can get some idea of where others see it. We don’t want to be the only bidder and start (and finish too high). Any thoughts please?

No such thing as not in the negotiable range - a buyer can either afford and wish to increase the offer to something you’ll agree or they can’t.

What you mean is you tried to get someone up who couldn’t afford your house - that’s a very specific scenario which is not applicable to other cases - including this one.

There is a non-negotiable range because I’ve decided what it is. And other sellers will have the same, even if they haven’t articulated to themselves. That’s why people get worried about making cheeky offers. They don’t know what the seller’s negotiable range is. And if they actually want the house they are not going to want the seller to turn down the offer flat and not even counter offer. And to pre-empt comments such as ‘it’s just a business decision’, it isn’t. It’s about where the buyer is hoping to make a home.

As I said no such thing as negotiable range - only a price you will or won’t accept. If someone offers low but can afford your ask in cash with a quick close would you refuse to negotiate due to where they started?

No such thing as a cheeky offer either just ones that are too low.

And it really depends on the context. OP is reporting a niche house (read hard to value) in not “top choice” area with no offers in 4 months. Very different scenario to a desirable house on a sought after road in a coveted area with offers already on the table, where you’d be looking to offer at ask and may have to go over.

Actually @ Mirabai I agree with @NewFriendlyLadybird - having been the "victim" of game playing (not affordability) by a buyer previously, there is definitely a non-negotiable range for some / most sellers. We lost quite alot of money as a result of that transaction so have been massively wary since when we've sold again. If you come across as a player, in my head you'll shaft us somehow as we get to the point of no return (in terms of the sale) and I'll lose money - so if I doubt you as a serious buyer (stupid offers) I'd just dismiss you as a buyer (and tell the EA not to deal with you, even if you came up with a better offer). Obviously if I was desperate to sell that might be different, but no way would I willingly expose myself to that kind of risk again unless I was absolutely desperate (and it doesn't sound like OP's seller is there yet).

How much was it last sold for? If reasonably recent, that will give you a range. For an older sale, you can also use the Nationwide price estimate based on its postcode. Seller tend to think in nominal terms and will anchor on the purchase price.

there is definitely a non-negotiable range for some / most sellers

All that actually means is you won’t accept less than x - which is true for most sellers (whether they actually get x or not).

Players can come in at any pricepoint so if you blackball someone who offers too low first time you could walk straight into the arms of one nonetheless. You also actually need to be wary of people who offer high. Some do so to get the offer accepted and then try to drop the price after survey and some just can’t afford what they’ve offered.

For me, and I introduced the concept here, it means absolutely ‘offer below x and, not only will I decline but I will not consider you even if you come back with a higher offer’. Obviously no one wants to pay more than they have to, and I know there are still some optimistically priced houses out there, but if a seller has priced realistically and the buyer can afford at least up to that price, then a very low ball offer is kinda rude and suggests that they are going to be difficult. If they really believe the house is massively overpriced, it’s better to wait until it dawns on the sellers (and risk losing it) than to put themselves out of the running from the get-go.
Sorry to have derailed your thread, OP. I’ll shut up now.

To reiterate - offer what you think it is worth which in part will be based upon your desire to want to sell it quickly in a few years time. If it is a niche house in a not especially desirable location it will be difficult to sell whatever you pay for it - because the next buyer will look what you paid to try to determine its value (there will not be similar properties nearby to help with that). To be honest, if you know that you want to sell quickly in a few years then this house probably isn’t for you.

Also - it is not a crime if the seller gets a bit more for it than they would have accepted anymore than it is a crime if you get it for a bit less than you would have paid. In fact if you get it for a price you are happy with why do you care if you could have got it for less?

@NewFriendlyLadybird

For me, and I introduced the concept here, it means absolutely ‘offer below x and, not only will I decline but I will not consider you even if you come back with a higher offer’

Idiotic. So if a cash buyer came back at full ask you’d turn them down as their first offer piqued you?

Sellers don’t price houses agents do. Reputable agents price sensibly for the comps but even so their remit is to get the highest possible price for their seller, not to set a realistic or fair price for the buyer. Some agents quote a high price to get the listing and accept offers under or reduce.

There’s no such thing as a low offer being rude - the only cheeky offers are timewasters and they can come in at any price. Any offer can be valuable to bid up best offers and with many offers on the table you could go to sealed bids.

10% below ask is not partic low in the current climate.

Not because I was piqued, but because I wouldn’t trust them.

Oh and of course sellers price houses. They may accept or disregard agents’ recommendations, but they’re the ones making the final decision. Just as they decide which offers to accept.

Yeah I agree that sellers help to decide what price properties are listed at. They normally get 2 or 3 EAs round and have a conversation with each one about what price to list the house at. Sometimes they insist they want to list at more than the EA recommendation, sometimes less.

Our last property we didn't go with the EA that gave the highest valuation as we preferred the other EA & thought they were being more realistic. We decided on a figure at a point in between both valuations and asked the EA we preferred if they would list it at slightly higher than their initial valuation (still lower than the second EA valued it at). They happily agreed to win the business.

Sellers choose a price based on the agents’ valuations. Generally from 3 estimates.

It’s the agents who know the comps for the area - you’d be surprised how many people haven’t done that basic work, or think their house is worth far more than it actually is.

Sellers don’t just randomly pluck a price from thin air - well some try but good agents won’t waste their time and money marketing a property at a price that will never sell.

I can’t take you seriously, you sound so naive.

Hi all, I live in wandsworth London and looking for having a new shower enclosure installed (currently there is only sink and toilet) so effectively is an installation of an additional shower area/bathroom. The area is small , how much should it be a valid expectation on price? (work only no materials, with council approval and application). Thanks

Maybe I am. But, you know, I’m pretty successful in a number of areas, including buying and selling houses (not as a job). What you call naivety I think I would think of as people skills.

How much did it last change hands for and when? Then you could look at how much prices have generally risen/fallen in that area % wise and do a rough calculation of what you might think the current value was.

I don't think 10% under is disrespectful, but round up to £900 if you feel beginning with an 8 is too low, but with no offers and no comparables starting with an 8 (or even less) might be where it should be for all you know. If there is nothing in that area at that sort of price it may be difficult for you to sell when the time comes so you don't want to over pay, unless it will really be your forever home.

Surely in a slow market with a general expectation of a slight adjustment nobody could be 'offended' by a 10% under asking offer? They may say no, but offended is odd.

Chain free is definitely an advantage that you should stress- chains are collapsing all over the place and taking forever to form in the first place. Assuming you’re not in London, a house priced at almost 1 million could be at the end of a 4/5 person chain. That’s a lot that has to align vs just selling to someone who could complete in a few weeks and has flexible timing.

@NewFriendlyLadybird Yeah, I imagine you do.

This thread has been derailed a little, but there is no need to be personal - @Mirabai your approach to selling a property is not the only way or always the best way. The English conveyancing process (including the real lack of any transparency from estate agents, the front loaded costs combined with a lack of financial penalty for backing out until exchange) means that it is open to all sorts of abuse / game playing / deceit - call it what you will. Trying to protect yourself from that (as far as it is within your own control) doesn't mean someone is naive.

@Africa2go No need to be personal but you’re going to have a go at me? Ok.

Never said there’s one way to sell a property - indeed quite the opposite - you need to open and flexible. Hard and fast rules that may not apply to the situation at hand are pointless. Trying to protect yourself from a past mistake could lead you to walk into a completely different mistake.

Shall we get back to the actual thread now? There’s been some good recent advice.

You called another poster naive for having a different approach to you. That's not called for. Yes, let's get back to the thread.

No one had a go at you.