Boundary nightmare

[Tearingmyhairoff]

Hi wondering if anyone can help please?

We have agreed a sale of our house back in April, took us until October to find our onward purchase and now we have this nightmare with our boundaries.

Our house consists of two plots which the house and garden sit across. It was built to the side of an existing row of terraces on some extra land at the end owned by our next door neighbour. The fence to the garden next door was there when we bought it and the neighbours agree that’s where the fence should be. So no dispute.

our buyer is saying that the fences don’t match the land registry boundaries (the black lines) but the fence is sitting on next doors ‘red line’ on the title plan, albeit right on the edge nearest to ours.The black lines follow the old layout.

The buyer won’t accept it and wants us to get it sorted but we are not sure what to do next. Does anyone have any experience of this or can advise?

Check with their conveyancing solicitor what they expect to be sorted. It from your description it sounds like the fence behind to the neighbour and is on their property, so what is your buyer asking to be sorted?

They’re asking for a determined boundary. Which needs a specialist survey and is quite a complicated process. Easier to move the bloody fence!

Well either their solicitor can contact the Land Registry or yours can . We had a similar thing with Fils house. Sometimes the LR things aren't 100% accurate in that their lines are a bit thick on the plans. In the end we just said we have done what we can - we did as much as we could and SIL is a solicitor - take it or leave it. They took it.

A determined boundary survey and document isn't hard, or that expensive. But it sounds excessive for your situation. I wonder why they are after it. Perhaps they want to develop so clarity over exact plot size matters.

https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries/apply-exact-boundary-determined

Land Registry plans are usually only indicative, so your purchaser is misinformed. Anyway, you can enter into a boundary agreement with your neighbour cheaply or simply, or you can tell the purchaser it is what it is.

https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries/boundary-agreement-neighbour

@BasiliskStare do you remember the ins and outs? Land reg haven’t been all that helpful for us.

@Rollercoaster1920 have you done one before? If so can you tell me anything about what you did?

I have been all through the land registry guidance, and I think the buyers solicitor is wrong. Our onwards purchase is getting. Nervous too. Trouble is it’s a rough market and we don’t want to lose our buyer.

@NaturalStudy we offered a boundary agreement but they’ve said they want a determined boundary. Would cost nearly £2000 for the surveys and solicitors fees

Bizarre. I would ask them what it actually is they are worried about that a boundary agreement cannot solve. To be honest if they are being this difficult about this issue I would be wary of a sale to them, as it sounds like they will be a complete nightmare throughout the process.

Trouble is I don’t think the solicitors on either side really know what they are doing. We are desperate to move and have spent a considerable amount on our onward purchase.

Sorry to read that we’ve not been all that helpful but I don’t think the solution lies with us here. I’m sure we’ve explained, and the linked guidance does as well, that we register the general boundaries so they’re never going to be definitive.
From a registration perspective it’s the red outlines that count re the general boundaries. Black lines are either Ordnance Survey detail re physical features in place when surveyed (so not ownership or registered boundaries) or lines added by us to aid adding the red outline for example.
If it’s a recent title plan (digitalised) then the black lines should be OS ones and not directly relevant to what you have registered/own
So if the buyer thinks there’s an issue to resolve then you have options re a boundary agreement or a determined boundary. Which one solves their issue is up to them.
What has actually been said, their words, re the issue and how do they see a determined boundary as being the solution?

Thank you @LandRegRep1862 for replying.

we haven’t had any explanation as to why they’re not happy with a boundary agreement.

I think the best way I can explain it, is when looking at ours and our neighbours property together fence follows along a straight line but the two parcels together don’t match up to that straight line. Very crude picture attached but the yellow arrrow is the point of issue. Off that point the fence runs alongside that where you can see the faint black line.

The pictures makes sense. So the fence is a straight line whilst the land registry shows a kink. So it looks like your land is beyond the fence (which belongs to the neighbour).
I can see why they are asking for it to be resolved before buying, I would.

Sorry I missed up your plots and neighbours. So it looks like your garden includes some of next door's land. Whilst the neighbours may agree, if they sold without a determined boundary agreement you could get agro in future.

So your deeds show the blue boundary but the fence follows the green line at the end?

I think I'd just move the fence TBH. Sounds like less faff!

It’s a common mistake in that people look at the indexing (MapSearch) information which you have shared. The screenshot is taken from an online service to enable users to identify registered titles. It’s not definitive re boundaries etc and simply a tool to get you to the registered information.
If you are looking to confirm the registered extents then you need to be viewing the title plans themselves - not saying that they will be a perfect match but they are wrong to be relying on the screenshot you have shared here
So next Q is what does your title plan show and does it roughly match what you are selling?
If it does then no issue re sale/purchase.
If the issue is the screenshot not matching the registered extents/title plans then just a Q of getting in touch and telling us. If the indexing needs adjusting that’s all that’s needed.
A DB application would only usually be in play IF the registered extents were ok but neighbours wanted to narrow in on the detail and define the boundary position in more detail.
If the title plan doesn’t match what’s being sold then a DB won’t solve that.

@LandRegRep1862 really useful post. It makes me wonder what is the cutoff between a determined boundary agreement vs alteration of tile plans (presumably via a transfer).

Thank you @LandRegRep1862 so so helpful.

we did contact the land registry saying we believed there was an error but they said it wasn’t.

the title plans also show the same as what is on that screenshot to be fair. When you line the two plots next to each other you get the blue outline that @SoupDragon has marked up, and the fence is on the green line.

i kept arguing with the solicitor that a determined boundary was not needed.

i think its might be solved by a transfer in part. Does anyone have any experience of this, particularly with lenders involved and how difficult that was?

Determined boundaries to all intense and purposes ‘fix’ the general boundaries.
So the alternatives when registered extents need changing are threefold.

1. A transfer of part/exchange depending on what needs changing
2. A claim under adverse possession so the fence is actually here and has been for a long time so that land is mine or
3. An error on registration and here’s the old deeds/documents to prove it.

3 seems unlikely here and we’ve already said no error it seems 1 is a good option if you and neighbour agree 2 is a longer option as much will depend on you satisfying the legal requirements needed to prove your claim. And the neighbour not disputing it. So my advice, based solely on what you have shared here, is to discuss the reality on the ground and it’s history eg “always been like that since…..I bought it” and then options with your conveyancer. You can then respond to the buyer’s conveyancer based on what works best for you and hope that works for them too.