Negotiating purchase price after survey

[MissterMummy]

So I posted before about offering under an 'offers over' house and we were very happy to have our 5k under offer accepted just before Christmas. We;ve just had our level 3 survey back which was a bit of an eye opener (and I've read a few of these before!) so I'm pondering whether or not to revise down our offer.

Stuff that the survey brought out were things that were not visible or evident on viewings. E.g. Lead mains water pipe, Structural steels for loft not treated (not primed for rust/fire), vermin infestation in the eaves, rot to window frames, high levels of damp (high enough to warrent a damp specialist). All in all almost 40k worth of work, 30k of which is classifed as urgent. I was aware on viewing of the window frames and damp - It's an old house so I can accept moderate levels of this - but not to the extent that the survey picked up.

Now I know the surveyors are always trying to cover their bases as much as possible so these always read like armageddon. Our first offer of 955k was 20k under their initial asking price of 975k which they rejected so we upped to 970. But now I'm thinking our first number was actually a fairer reflection...

The estate agent kept the listing online over Christmas until our mortgage offer got confirmed, so they were obviously hoping for another bite over the break, but things still feel slow here (London). We don't want to lose the house but equally not wanting to move into an immediate money pit. The seller is motivated (we are their second buyer, first fell through over the summer) and the house was a rental so currently empty. We've exchanged and in rented so ready to move fast.

So my question is, do you think we should revise down our offer, and if so by how much? Or else just suck it up? Don't want to piss anyone off too much but at the same time this can't be a race to the bottom! TIA

Exchanged as in , we've exchanged on our house sale not for our onward purchase obvs!

I would definitely offer less if I were you. Not only do you have to pay for the work to be done but you have to put up with the hassle, the wait time for contractors, the hassle of contractors and the risk of getting someone dodgy.
The sellers might not go for it but I would at least try. You're in a really strong position too and they presumably want it sold. Tens of thousands is a small percentage of the selling price.

Are the beams actually rusty? If they are you would want an engineer to calculate any loss of strength and whether they are still OK, if not you just need to check them yearly or so. I don't think any sort of paint would stop them getting hot in a fire.

Where is the lead pipe? Is it accessible to replace?

If you knew about the damp and the windows, I don't see £40k of unexpected work really.

Like anything property related, it really comes down to how much you want the house. You might be risking the purchase if you ask for a reduction, so you'd have to consider how you would feel if they said no and relisted.

Houses obviously have intrinsic value based on location / size, but when it comes down to the last 5-10% of a house price it's really about how much value a house has to the potential buyer.

@Silverbirchtwo surveyor didn’t mention any rust on steels in the report but I’ll be double checking, it’s more that the lack of them being primed might indicate the works not being built to building regs.

Extents of lead pipe is accessible so a swap out shouldn’t be too disruptive

def not going to be asking for a 40k drop, that amount was covering all issues, it’s more the urgent and unforeseen ones that are justifiable

You were aware of the damp and the window rot when you offered which would make up the majority of the outlay. Listing that they had mice and don't have a special coating on the beams sounds like you are clutching at any excuse to reduce the price.

Expect the sellers to be wise to you and reject your lower offer.

The seller knows after not getting any further bites that's its not so easy to find a buyer in your position. You definitely have good reason to negotiate down using the survey. I think open the negotiation at your original offer of 955k and see what happens.. Good luck

I think you are slightly using this to your advantage tbh as a lot of the expensive work was already evident when you viewed. Nevertheless, why not try to get a reduction now you have some evidence to back up a lower offer? I would try it because you never know, and the EA keeping the house online until your mortgage offer came through only strengthens your position now.

They did well in the current market to get 970k on a house listed at OIEO 975k. I would be inclined to tell the EA you are anxious about all the urgent work listed in the survey so you are reducing your offer to 960. See what the owners say - even if they offer a compromise at 965k you have still saved 5k.

How can anyone tell you ?

It depends how much you want it. Either negotiate the price down with evidence if you are prepared to pay hardball or pay the money if you want it.

No one knows how the seller is going to react if you try to pay hardball. They may need to sell it quickly. They may not give a stuff. They may treat it as a business transaction. Or they may get stupidly offended and refuse to deal with you any further.

Either you want it badly and pay up or you are willing to risk losing it and negotiate down.

You're in a strong position for further negotiation, they have no other interest and you're immediately proceedable. They don't have to like it, but if they want to sell the house to you right now and you feel a reduction based on the survey (every house I've bought I've negotiated further post survey), they will have to negotiate further.

Ask for what you want.

Absolutely offer less. In fact, I'd be offering 40k less.

Vermin should be cheap. The steels have been delivered for years with a red oxide coat, so surprising yours are not. In any case it’s a simple fix of running wire wool/buffer over them, a wipe down, then spray or hand brush red oxide on them.
Steels in a loft will never rust to any extent anyway as long as they remain dry.
The lead mains is also very common, not sure this is a negotiating point. I guess it is, but I doubt they’ll give anything or any more than 50% as it’s more an improvement than requirement.
Certainly try to negotiate though!

Yes, I’d most definitely be revising my offer. 30k less.

This is an old property is less than pristine condition, previously a rental and now empty. Was the original price reflective of that compared to fully updated similar sized property.

Regarding the loft beams.. is the loft converted and marketed / priced as such? If so ... check the building regulations compliance.

On the face of it.. damp, windows, lead pipe and vermin may have been relatively obvious on viewing. I presume you had planned some renovation based on what you have said here... did you believe the windows were repairable and now you believe otherwise.. you could negotiate based on that. What damp work are you now anticipating that you did not factor in originally?

The loft converstion would be a concern. Are you paying for a loft conversion that may need to be redone or is is a bonus and priced accordingly? As soon as you start to consider internal changes to the structure of the loft, you are likely to have to address this... if you assumed it was done to regulations and had no intention of changing this... and you felt the price reflected this... you could have grounds for negotiation.

With all of the work you now know needs to be done to the house, is it worth the price plus the cost of the work?

Surveys are difficult... we have lived in several edwardian / victorian / georgian houses.. some required significant investment to maintain and increased in value, another was said to need a new roof but 20 years later, it is still water tight and functional, two had non conforming loft conversions and have been bought and sold at least twice without further alterations. All needed a mixture of cosmetic and structural work in various forms. All increased in value.

Thanks everyone for all your opinions, lots to think about!

I just had a chat with the surveyor to get a sense about just how bad the damp is and he’s said it’s pretty significant and urgent. The other items (vermin/steels/windows/lead pipe) are easy fixes, but the rising damp sounds like a faff. (Said remedial work needs not just injection of damp proof course but also replastering of 1.5m internally and re skirting.

so I’m considering adding up the estimates for the damp work and asking for half of it off, which will be about 8k. Bundle it up with a few pages from the survey to the EA and see.

Surprised you’d want to cover half of an urgent problem. If it’s 16k, plus there’s numerous other issues, why wouldn’t you start by going back with a 20k reduction? The house issues are going to cost you.

Negotiate, which means ask for more than you want and come to a lower compromise, not compromise first and then compromise further.

@PossumintheHouse @GoldDuster you’re both right, I’m just crap at negotiating, esp asking for money!! 😬

but you’re right I need to not compromise. Worst they can say is no! (Bracing myself to call EA now)

Good luck. It’s a reasonable reduction to ask for. Remember, the survey has thrown up 40k worth of issues.

You're paying £970k for a house, £40k is a drop in the ocean considering your strong position and the work that needs doing.

They can either refuse to budge or negotiate and then you can decide your next move accordingly. You're not in their pocket, now isn't the time to be shy and British about it, it doesn't matter what they think of you personally, it's a business transaction. Be bold!

I'd say 30k they will come back with £20k and settle on £25k

I'd go with 50k under with my reasoning being 40k for the work that needs doing and 10k for the rented accommodation you'll need while the work is undertaken, the time off work to project manage the fairly substantial amount of work, and then fix the cosmetic aspects that will be damaged to perform the work behind (wallpaper, paint etc.) IME the survey estimate doesn't include making the house liveable again, it would be to a plaster finish.

I’d hope for exactly this.

Old houses - do not tank the walls 1.5m high or insert a damp proof course. It could make it worse.

Does the house smell of damp or is it just from readings? Is the plaster blown?

Rising damp is extremely uncommon. Get a proper historic buildings specialist in to look at it before you do anything else.

Also windows- are they original? A bit of rot is to be expected and usually easy to fix.

I would echo the previous posters comment about damp.. look carefully before jumping in to hacking off plaster, injecting DPC or tanking.

There is a lot written about rising damp, much of it contradictory including no small amount of mudslinging! The cause of damp is more likely to be due to poor ventilation including issues with sub floors, incorrect use of materials, blocked chimneys / air bricks, ground level higher than damp proof course or the affect of changes made to the house since construction. Read Pigletjohn's posts on everything before proceeding. There is some interesting work being done in Venice retrofitting damp proof courses rather than injecting chemicals... this is quite a rabbit hole!!