Buiding Regs for a Party Wall

[Grimaldi]

Hi understand that any building works need to be iaw building regulations and are signed off with a Building Completeion Certificate.
I thought that any modifications to the party wall would also have to be iaw buidling regulations.
However, when I spoke to Building Control they said that any modifications to the party wall were not covered by Building Control but the Party Wall Surveyor.
Question wrt Building Completion Certificate
Does the Building Completion Certificate include modification to the party wall or does it exclude the party wall modifications?
If it does include modifications to the party wall, is it the party wall surveyor that must ensure that the modifications are iaw building regulations and they sign this off on behalf of Building Control so that the Building Completion Certificate covers all the modifications
Or if the Building Completion Certificate does not include the party wall modifications, is there an equivalent Building Completion Certificate for party wall modifications that the party wall sureyor issues once the party wall surveyor is satisfied that the modifications to the party wall are iaw building regulations?

sorry if it is a bit long-winded

would appreciate some clarification or corrections

thanks

What modifications are you making to the wall?

The Party Wall Act is a separate legislation to The Building Regulations. The building control application and any certificate issued as a result of that application will only cover the Building Regulations.

The Party Wall Act will have its own requirements that you will need to comply with which. There is a useful online leaflet which would be worth reading - www.gov.uk/government/publications/preventing-and-resolving-disputes-in-relation-to-party-walls/the-party-wall-etc-act-1996-explanatory-booklet

BR and PW look at slightly different things.

BR is there to check that you have built/changed the structure correctly and safely so for example our loft conversion, we sent council BR our calculations and drawings for the steel beams. They visited several times to check the floor joists, steel placement, drain connections, fire alarms and insulation. We were then issued with a completion certificate at the end.

PW - my very basic understanding is that it's there to check the party wall/foundations/etc , before and after works to ensure no damage has occurred due to the work you have completed. It protects you and your neighbour as the surveyor will have a record of the current state of your neighbour's property before your work started.

Or to put it crudely - br are there to check that the house won't fall down or that you have a clear escape route in case of a fire. Pw is there for you to cover your arse if your neighbour claims damage to their property were caused by your work.

hi nicelunch
the modification was the removal of a chimney breast from the party wall
It may have negatively affected the structural integrity of the party wall
I assumed that this would have to be iaw BR; is that true?
Are the modifications to the PW covered by the Building Compltion Certifcate?
thanks

hi Notyetthere,
thanks, but it is still not clear whether a BCC covers modifications to a PW?
thanks

Hi Op

As part of our extension build in 2022, we removed a chimney breast from the downstairs dining room. The removal of the chimney breast was covered by a Party Wall Notice we served on our neighbours and also of the Party Wall Award that resulted from this. However there was no follow up once the works had been completed, there was no certificate issued by either of the Party Wall Surveyors involved. Once the Party Wall Award was agreed, which was before the building work began, that was it and we had no contact with them again.

My understanding (and I am by no means an expert) is that if there are issues with building work covered by a Party Wall Award then the onus is on the neighbouring property to contact the Party Wall Surveyor who drew up the award.

As others have said, building regs and party wall awards are slightly different things. I think it would be possible for construction to meet building regs but at the same time not be consistent with whatever Party Wall Award had been agreed.

Its not clear from your post whether there was a Party Wall Award. If there was one and you think the removal of the chimney breast has caused structural issues, I would have thought the first port of call would be the party wall surveyor who drew up the award. At the very least he should be able to point you in the right direction.

You're conflating two different things. The Building Regs compliance and subsequent issued certificate covers all works, including the party wall. Completely separately, any Party Wall Agreement covers works to the party wall and a part of that will be checking that Building Regs were adhered to properly when making changes to the party wall.

Think of the Building Regs as being the MOT on a car; you need work done to comply to the MOT standard in order to get your MOT certificate and be legal. Separately, the car insurance company will require your car to have passed its MOT and have that certificate, but it the insurer may also place additional requirements (such as listing current condition/modifications) and this is how the Party Wall Agreement works. It's not that the Party Wall Agreement signs off the Building Regs for just the Party Wall.

hi AnotherCunningPlan,
thanks for your reply
so all modifications whether covered by PW or not need to meet BRs
which is what I thought
what I wasnt sure about is, whose repsonsibility is it to ensure that BRs are complied with?
Is it the PWS that needs to ensure that BRs are complied with as a minimum, or is that for Building Control?
sorry if I am asking the same question, just refining it
thanks

hi PragmaticWench,
thanks for your reply
I am a bit confused as when I spoke to Building Control they said they didnt cover the PW; were they correct?
which is why I thought that it was the PWS that ensured that PW modifications were iaw BRs
thanks

@Grimaldi be mindful that removing the chimney breast will also require the removal of the chimney on the roof or the weight will bring it down through the house. why not just ask the neighbour if they would also consider removing their chimney and chimney breast.

I think they possibly meant that Building Control/Building Regs don't get involved with Party Wall legislation, not that that Building Regs don't cover works to party walls.

Works to party walls can require approval under the Building Regs, but may not need to have a Party Wall agreement and vice versa.

They are two separate systems, and neither will get involved in the other.

Your Builder/architect should be able to advise as to which works need which approvals.

If you have done any structural work to the party wall, such as taking down a chimney then there should have been a building regulation application for it, or the builder should have liaised with the building control authority as works went along, then you'll get a building control completion certificate for those works. The PW award is a separate legislative act to ensure that the works are done correctly, record the condition of the wall before works are carried out and protect both parties who share the wall. I would expect the Party Wall Award to say that the works needed to be carried out in line with appropriate building regs, the PWS would then check on completion that the building work has the building control completion certificate.

hi Seeline,
thanks for the clarifcation
it now makes sense
thanks

hi 2jacqi,
the chmnney breast was taken out at the ground floor but not at levels above and so there needed to be support work once it was removed; therein lies the problems I think
thanks

hi Sanch1,
that is well explained
the problem was that the wall was assumed to be double skinned brick thick when it was only single skinned brick thick
it was some time after when the chimney breast was removed and all supporting modifications were made that it was discovered that it was only single skinnned brick thick
My follow on question is
what building regs (BRs) are applicable in this situation?
If wall was built 100 years ago, BRs have obviously moved on
which BRs apply? the BRs when 1st built or the current BRs of today?
regardless I would have thought that any modifications to the wall should maintain the structural integrity of the wall or improve it?
thanks

Approved Document A:Structure will apply. Additional structural support in form of steel or concrete lintols will likely be needed to support the chimney above that remains in place. There were no building regs 100 years ago so moot point, the building regs in place at the time of the work apply. Your last sentence is correct, you/your builder should have had the work assessed by a structural engineer to assess the existing situation and design any new support work needed.

hi Sanch1,
thanks for your reply
They had put in place "structural support in form of steel or concrete lintols will likely be needed to support the chimney above that remains in place."
but they did not put anything in place to support the lateral support that the chimney breast provided when also acting as a buttress to the wall
I now have a 4m x 3m span of wall of single brick with no lateral support (as the buttress has now been removed from the middle of the wall span)
I find it hard to believe how that could meet building regs?
thanks

I'm not a structural engineer so I don't know, I'd suggest you get one to look at it.

hi Sanch1
I'm not either it just didnt look right thats all
thanks