Who pays the Council Tax?

[Soothsayer01]

I was living in a separate annexed apartment in England, which formed part of the landlords house, except I had my own bathroom, living room and kitchen as well as bedroom, and my own front door/entrance. I shared a driveway and postbox with the landlord but that was it. The annex did however obviously fall under the same address as the landlords property, because it was all one property.

Although the annex was separate, in one room, he has blocked the door off into his house with a solid partition, and pushed a wardrobe in front of it. In the other apartment next door, also an annex, there is a proper wall partition. I lived there first and then moved to the other one, and he now rents out that one too.

There was no rental agreement and the landlord asked me to pay cash every month. He also asked me not to have any HMRC or government type mail sent to this address.

Who do you think the council would say should be responsible for the council tax for the annex in which I lived?

Yes that's exactly what he would say/do but if it's all above board why not declare it and why only take cash and tell me not to have any official docs sent there?

Why did it take you 7 years to come to that conclusion

from day one we all know this isn’t a legitimate setup
sounds like a good things come to an end so your pissed off

Absolutely agree with this. I'm quite sure that I have read about this type of situation before and the tenant was responsible.

He's keeping it secret because he is supposed to pay income tax on the income he gets from your rent and he is avoiding that. That's not your problem though. It's his crime.

The fact that you don't have a contract doesn't have to be a problem - tenancy rights are automatic and you don't need a written contract to have them. However, if the building is legality classified as a single dwelling then you are a lodger rather than a tenant so you have much less rights - shorter notice period, very little protection against immediate eviction.

The OP doesn't mention 7 years and either way its irrelevant - the landlord is committing the fraud, not the lodger.

Plenty of landlords demand payment in cash, this is a common fraud in times of rental stock shortage and inflated rental prices. They particularly target lodgers who find it difficult to get into the legitimate rental market or who don't know the law and regulations in this space. When the lodger realises that something unusual is happening the landlord will tell them they will be in trouble themselves if they tell HMRC/government before moving onto their next victim.

They are a plague on legitimate landlords and the legitimate rental market.

There is no one answer we looked at loads of properties with annexes all in the same local area with saw places with kitchenettes - literal kettle and microwave that paid separate council tax and places with full kitchens including washing machines and dishwashers that didn't. It depends on the way the planning was granted. We end up with a property with a large two bedroom annex with full kitchen and there is no separate council tax bill.

He's illegally renting out a makeshift annex. By law, an annex is its own entity and the CT should be in the tenant's name.

yes OP did mention 7 years
all that said if you have a sense of right and wrong and principles you have that from day one report it then not out of bitterness when you leave

@Soothsayer01 I used to work in council tax, yes it should be listed as a separate dwelling due to having a kitchen and bathroom and its own entrance.

You don't need planning permission to change the interior of the house and this is how he has got away with it not being listed by the Valuation Office (VOA) as being a separate dwelling. Some qualify under the "granny annexe" exemption whereby they are occupied by a member of the family but this is not the case here. Some have their own separate electricity and gas supplies and meters are installed some are rented out as bills included in the rent.

It sounds like he is not declaring any rental income which is why it is all cash and no tenancy agreement. As it stands he is liable for the council tax as there is only one residence listed. You can find this on the VOA website. Council tax can be backdated and yes you would be liable for I would guess an A band property but he would also have to declare the income and you would argue that all bills were included in the rent. There is no way he is admitting that he rented it out.

Feel free to quote the post from the OP which says 7 years.

Then read my actual post. There is only one.

He is probably not declaring the income to HMRC. For the joined property he could probably get the rent a room relief up to the limit but he should be declaring both.

OP post at 7.04 mentions 7 years

OP mentions 'several years'.

Check on here to see if the two annexes have separate CT registered:

https://www.mycounciltax.org.uk/content/index

Tbh I highly doubt the LL has let that happen, he will have gone to great lengths to ensure that they weren't considered official annexes. Not necessarily because he can't afford it, but because selling a house with three sets of council tax liabilities will be a massive pita. Doesn't matter if the house is worth 1.2 mil. Even the wealthy won't want to pay three sets of council tax.

Curious to hear what you find out.

Thanks. Says it's a band G £3498

Exactly. I can't reply to rwalker post as he quoted me. I moved out so this isn't about it ending. All rent owing was paid - actually I paid the final month by bank transfer which he wasn't happy about!

You are responsible for any backdated council tax unless you can prove it was included in your rent. I was the landlord in this scenario, my lodger tried to claim discount council tax, but didn't pay any council tax. This triggered a reassessment of the property and the council went after him for the backdated tax. It wasn't acrimonious and I split it with him as no one was trying to be dodgy, but council let me know it was his responsibility. He had already moved out by that point.

Ok so I CAN prove I lived there. I did have some mail registered to the address. Also my car is on his driveway on google earth!!! You can clearly see it's my car, it's distinctive. I've also dont a video of the outside of the house and inside annex when I was moving out for the removal men. I'm talking throughout it. I also have photos. My accountant did mistakenly add this address to Hmrc for a period of time even though I said it was only for correspondence or something so I have some hmrc docs coming there. I never registered my car there or my bank etc.

It would help if we could better understand your purpose, e.g:

I lived there for two years and he charged me 650pm plus 120 extra for council tax, or

I had a bloody awful time with him and I think he is a tax dodging scumbag and want to report him, or

I moved out and he said I owe two years council tax at 120pm and won't give me my deposit back

Having read your description of the property, you don't need to enter his house to use the bathroom, to cook or to enter your space. He can call it whatever he bloody likes to make you think you have fewer rights than you do, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what is or is not said or is or is not in writing. A court decides depending on evidence. And that is NOT a lodger setup. That is a tenant setup. Lodgers share facilities, usually kitchens and bathrooms, and most of the time they use the same front door.

I take it only one council tax was listed, band G?

Yes that's right just one.

My reasons are to cause the LL some or a lot of inconvenience/ problems due to his ill treatment/ harassment of me and making my life absolute hell during the pandemic after my mum just passed away, which he knew. I want justice in whatever form that comes. That's the short version.

He was also going in the house (it was on 2 floors) without my permission and snooping around and lying about it.

I know that pain. I had a LL who stalked me in my own home and I lost so much sleep that I ended up hallucinating.

Gather your evidence and write to the tax office and copy in the local council. They will want to know about cash only payments.

Sorry it's getting to you so much that you posted on Xmas morning. Perhaps step away from this thread for a while, look at it again and deal with it after the 27th? Give yourself a bit of a break. You survived him, you can relax a bit now.

Hugs x

I can't reaply to your other post. So replying here. I already told the council but made up a fake name and said I was a neighbour. Apparently they visited him but he lied and said either it's not rented or it's a lodger. They're reluctant to go there again but I can escalate it higher up in the council.

He also has a friend who works at the council which makes him feel a bit protected.

So this is about a vindictive desire for revenge rather than the former LL trying to get you to pay extra for council tax?

Report him to HMRC if you must and leave it alone. It's not a healthy use of your energy or time. Move on.

Yeah this in spades.

You were a lodger with several perks / benefits by the sounds of it.
If you have burning desire report to HMRC for undeclared tax on your rent that was paid and move on with your life.

Does it make a difference if I lived there for an extended period of time ie several years?

No mention of seven.

Several != seven, by convention its three or four.

Either way - LL was evading taxes and behaving exactly in the way of LLs who get the sector a bad name - no sympathy for him.