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Original poster

Builder chargers me a rental fee for his tools

27 replies

Ivanbondar · 24/12/2023 07:06

Hello all, new one here.
Just finished having the bathroom done.
He did not communicate much during the job and we were billed more than we anticipated. It turns out he did not have the right tile cutter and so looked into hiring one, it was £300 to hire. He said that he decided to buy one himself (a tool he will no doubt use again) and he decided to bill clients the hire rate for its use. For example, he paid £1000 and he has charged us £300 for tile cutter hire.

We have no problem paying for materials. We have no problem paying rental fees if equipment needs hiring as long as it is communicated and it is returned to hire company.
We do have a slight issue with builder buying new tools and charging his customers the hire rate, especially with no communication beforehand.

Technically we own part of his new tool. How many customers is he going to bill a "hire fee". We would have liked this communicated and we would have perhaps negotiated to pay a lower hire fee since he is keeping the tool.

I work in advertising and I buy equipment for my work and pay subscriptions. I don't charge my clients rental fees for equipment I buy instead if hiring.

What do you think?
Thanks

OP posts:

DustyLee123 · 24/12/2023 07:08

He’s taking the piss. He could have said that he can’t do the job as he doesn’t have the right tools, and given you the choice to get someone else.

determinedtomakethiswork · 24/12/2023 07:09

He can't do that! Otherwise, he could charge you for the hire of every single tool he uses.

Twiglets1 · 24/12/2023 07:14

I think he’s being cheeky because he didn’t hire the equipment specifically for your job. He bought it knowing he would be able to use it many times in the future.

Having said that, I would want to keep the builder sweet if he was good and I might want to use him for future jobs in the future. I would maybe just question the high amount and try to negotiate a smaller fee say £150.

Mindymomo · 24/12/2023 07:15

You should only pay the price quoted for the job. My DH is a bathroom installer and yes, wet tile cutters are expensive in the £1,000 region, but these costs are, as you say to complete the job and should last years, if looked after. My DH always tells people it’s going to cost more for porcelain tiles, as more time is needed to fit and cut these, but wouldn’t dream of charging rent for tools. If customer changed their mind on materials after quoting for job, then yes, additional time costs maybe incurred.

Edwardandtubbs · 24/12/2023 07:19

DH is a gardener and he owns a chipper. We do charge people a hire fee when he uses that in their gardens, to reflect the extra time, effort and resources that it takes up. BUT this is quoted in advance, is a reasonable amount (£70 per day) and saves money for most people due to amount it reduces garden waste by.

He would never dream of charging a client for the purchase of a new tool during a job!

I wouldn’t pay it. It’s taking the piss.

billysboy · 24/12/2023 07:20

He’s taking the piss
if he’s quoted a price that’s it , if he then needs a different cutter and didn’t have one then he should have spoken to you first about any increase

I always think you need to assess whether it is fair and reasonable to expect a tradesman to have tools to do their trade

I think it fair to expect that he would have comprehensive tools to tile a bathroom and produce a decent job
if he needed a different cutter because of a subsequent change in tile then that’s on him

ohdamnitjanet · 24/12/2023 07:21

I had a builder quote for a roof repair and on his quote was the cost for buying some tools he didn’t have. I wouldn’t have paid for tools he was going to profit on in a million years so he didn’t get the job. He really must have thought I was incredibly stupid. I used to be a hairdresser - funnily enough I didn’t charge my clients for new scissors.

billysboy · 24/12/2023 07:24

If you hire in a specialist tool then that should have been pointed out at the time

sheeplikessleep · 24/12/2023 07:30

We are having a renovation and extension at the moment.
Our builder has bought some equipment through our build for himself which has, I think been prompted by our build, hasn’t affected our agreed cost.
I think the only ‘equipment hire’ costs which were included and specified in our original quote were scaffolding, skips and diggers type hires.
Your builder is taking the piss tbh. If it’s a cost he incurs to hire, it should have been specified upfront within project cost.
Our builder has lent us some of his tools etc to do some clearing in the garden at the weekends without any cost!

Original poster

Ivanbondar · 24/12/2023 07:34

He has do a good job but has made errors causing extra work which he has also billed us for!

OP posts:

ChequeredPastel · 24/12/2023 07:38

Surely if he fits bathrooms, a tile cutter would already be in his repertoire of tools???

Reallybadidea · 24/12/2023 07:39

Did he give you a quote or an estimate? As others have said if it was a quote then he shouldn't be increasing the price unless he needed to do extra work and it was agreed by you.

The hire charge is utterly ridiculous. I definitely wouldn't pay it and I would never use such a piss-taker again regardless of how good the finished quality is.

topnoddy · 24/12/2023 08:15

Where did he park his horse whilst he was doing all this work ?

BoredofBlonde · 24/12/2023 08:20

He will be claiming the money for the tools bought in his taxes anyway, so he is getting a double prize by charging you!!

What a cheek.

Have you talked to him?

Seaside3 · 24/12/2023 11:53

He's taking the piss.

So, have you googled tile cutters? They're cheap.

Original poster

Ivanbondar · 24/12/2023 11:57

Seaside3 · 24/12/2023 11:53

He's taking the piss.

So, have you googled tile cutters? They're cheap.

Wet tile cutters are more expensive than standard tile cutters

OP posts:

Original poster

Ivanbondar · 24/12/2023 11:59

ChequeredPastel · 24/12/2023 07:38

Surely if he fits bathrooms, a tile cutter would already be in his repertoire of tools???

He had a tile cutter but a wet tile cutter for Terrazo tiles are less common, but not outrageously uncommon. Some tilers may not have them, but if they bought them it would be a good investment!

OP posts:

Seaside3 · 24/12/2023 12:07

Even so, still not your issue he needed to buy it. He should have been clear that he was going to do this, not just decide to charge for it.

If he can't afford the right tools he should put his hourly rate up.

Original poster

Ivanbondar · 24/12/2023 12:10

Wow, thanks for the feedback. We made extremely meticulous drawings and plans with all measurements and pictures of how things should be. The builder didn't read them very well and made numerous errors, eg not measuring the shower space meant that the sink was too close to the toilet which meant we had to change the shape of the platform the sink was on, he made a good job of it but still. He has also invoiced us for the work which he created! Some of which we are OK with but some we think is unfair!

Especially on top of charging us a hire rate for his new tool, technically we own part of his tool, we should ask for commission every time he charges for it with future clients and will claim the tax back!

What do you think?

OP posts:

DRS1970 · 24/12/2023 12:16

If he hasn't communicated his intentions to change a key part of the job and how he I tended to complete it, and it's cost to you, and has failed to gain your approval - then I doubt there is much he could do if you object to the added cost, and only agree to pay the price quoted.

Riva5784 · 24/12/2023 12:26

DRS1970 · 24/12/2023 12:16

Exactly this.

He should have told you in advance what he was proposing and what it would cost, then got your agreement before going ahead.

katmarie · 24/12/2023 12:29

I think the essential question is what was in the quote?

gotomomo · 24/12/2023 13:08

Taking the Mickey! If you quote for tiling you should have a tile cutter

zaazaazoo · 24/12/2023 14:02

So does he charge you for hiring his screwdrivers and hammers too? These are the tools of his trade as is the wet time cutter. You pay him for his services. He provides the tools as needed.

Any errors of his that have caused more time and money spent is on him. It's not up to you to pay for his mistakes.

Original poster

Ivanbondar · 24/12/2023 14:18

OK so. Full story then:

We had a quote for a bathroom of X amount. The scope of work change by adding another 2 days max work charged at a day rate. We are absolutely fine with this. Not a problem with this.

Problems we had were:

He plasterboarded over part of our window frame. No idea why, they are period feature windows. So we made him take it down and plasterboard up to the edge of window frame. This was an extra days work and had to make a ledge around window frame too. Don't think we should be billed for that?

We left some lights lying around, which were not in the plans but the ones that were hadn't arrived yet so he put the wrong ones in and then charged us for taking them out and putting new ones in (this took about 10 minutes as were the same size so not sure what the price would be). If I was the builder, I would not even have mentioned it on the bill.

We have a small bathroom, the shower measurements were in the plans but they measured wrong and so the toilet was too close to the sink, to rectify this we told them to round off the sink platform which the sink rested on. Not sure how long that took but we have been invoiced for it, not sure how much extra it would cost as builders tend to be lazy with specifications. Don't think we should be billed for that....?

...We did request the the platform have an addition made on to it, this was not needed so don't mind paying for the additional work, however we never would have thought if it had they not messed up the original measurements.

Couple of other things such as the sink tap being too low, the extractor fan not being flush to the wall, and the valves of the radiator not being moved which means there is some odd pipe arrangements since it was a different size radiator. - none of which needed extra work because we settled for what had been done.

we drew everything up with measurements and photos etc extremely specific. Not sure how you could get it wrong unless you didn't read the plans!

When I write it down it looks like a real mess up but it does look really good despite all this.

OP posts:

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