Attic conversion

[Pleaselettheholidayend]

Buying a house with a loft room/conversion. Mortgage valuation has come back asking for either building regs/certificate of regularisation or for us to declare that we are only intending to use the house for storage purposes.

I'm really frustrated as we were hoping to use the loft room for a play space or office and it looks like we might not be able to if we can't get the proper certs.

I still like the house and it offers us more space but a good chunk less if this room is not habitable. We were always going to get a builder in to see if a dormer could be added to give it more room, but that was a further down the line job. I'm worried though that it might not be doable as none of the other houses on the street have any, though some have the helix windows for loft conversions. Do we negotiate the price down? Still awaiting results of our survey so need to see what that says. Anyone had similar issues?

Most attic conversions are "for storage purposes" and are used for rooms anyway, you just can't call it a 4 bed for example if its a 3 bed with a attic converted for storage... to convert them as habitable costs WAY more.

They should still have it signed off by an engineer though so look for a cert for the works done.

of course you can use it as you feel free. They won’t have cctv cameras in your home.

It's perfectly safe to use as an office or play space, but isn't able to be rented out as a bedroom, or sold on as a bedroom in the description. In terms of future conversion, it will probably be that you'll need to act as if nothing has been done rather than being halfway there but it doesn't rule out getting the work done. And then you'll be able to sell it as a 4 bed rather than 3 bed with useful loft space. Get the work done if you want to have it official, but it's still valuable to you in its current state. Just make sure you're not paying for it as a bedroom in the cost - but it is worth something on top of the number of bedrooms. I'm not sure it's fair or worth trying to negotiate down as it's still a good space.

I guess I am being daft, I know they can't 'know' how we use it, but I tend to get massive anxiety about having the correct paperwork etc. I'm annoyed too, because it was listed as a four bed house, which it isn't really. But this house will still give us more space than our current home. I'm just really worried this will scupper our move, we had a sale/purchase go horribly wrong last year and I can't cope with it happening again!

Please don't stress. We bought a house marketed as a 3 bed with a useful loft space. We then sold it as the same. For us and our buyers 5 years later it was brilliant to get an extra room for a little more than the cost of an average 3 bed, but not as much as a 4 bed as that was out of reach. As long as you don't rent it out or sell it on, it is genuinely ok to use it however you wish. It is totally safe and quite common. The thing that is bad is the incorrect description/listing so just make sure you're not paying for a 4 bed

i would be negotiating on the price given they inaccurately marketed it

You negotiate as unless they provide the certificates it's a 3-bed.

They listed it as four bed when in reality it’s a three bed. Absolutely negotiate price down if you still want it.

i’d be seeing this as a blessing

you get the extra space
plus you now have serious leverage for a reduction in price given misleading info

Yes I think we will look into renegotiating, probably after our survey is back/see if the certificates are to hand. Thank you this has made me feel a bit better though, we really did just want to use it as an office/play spaces, never a bedroom as the kids are still little and I didn't want us on different floors.

If it was advertised as a 4 bed, then I expect they have the certificates. It's fairly standard for mortgage companies not to ask for the certificates and leave it to you to do the running round for them. We remortgaged and have a 2 bed 1 bath loft conversion, fully compliant with planning and with build regs sign off. When the valuer came round they didn't even ask about certs etc, and then the valuation stated "without certification". I just contacted the mortgage company and sent over the documents, but how frustrating that the the mortgage valuer was too lazy to ask about the certificates which I could have shown her there and then, and just decided to value as if it was uncertified when it was fully certified.

Have you asked them for the certs?

We had this twice and both times loft is classed as storage only

They need certs to class it as a room.

You can use it as you feel fit, but if not signed off and you use it as a bedroom then you should be aware that house insurance will be invalid if there's a problem (fire, flood, subsidence etc). Also if the beams and joists haven't been strengthened you risk structural problems

Just be aware that for the summer and winter, if the insulation isn't good enough, the room will be unusable due to it being too hot or cold. So yes you could still in theory use it for "living space" but it may not be comfortable. Plus there are good reasons why we have building control, it's not to spoil people's fun. It's for things like fire safety. If it's a play room and there's a fire on the floor below, how likely is it to reach the attic, if it doesn't have the proper fire doors between the spaces? How would someone get out who was in the play room? If it's not deemed liveable space by professionals, you've got to ask why. I was in a fire as a child - so I know fire safety is important, it seems that other people devalue it unless it's too late.

As others have said you should price it as a 3 bed plus loft room. I wouldn’t worry too much about the lack of building control sign off as long as you have had a proper survey done. If it’s an older house, rest of the house is likely not have any building control sign off either. In fact you may find the loft is closer to the current code than the rest of the house and yet you would be happy to purchase it with a survey.

What is the estate agents description of the property? Are they habitable rooms or not? If so, then they should be building regs compliant with certificates.

If not, and you still want to buy, then consider what it would costs to make it compliant. Sometimes it is too difficult, ie people don't like replacing all their internal doors to become fire doors, although you can install sprinkler systems

It's perfectly safe to use as an office or play space
Well, it may not be. If it was only intended for storage, there may be weight restrictions.

This is my point too @Pleaselettheholidayend you can't listen to random people on the Internet to work out whether rooms are safe to use for living space, this is what professionals are for.

Oh hello, I am surprised this has started up again!

We are pursuing the certs, as we will need them as part of our mortgage application and if we can't we will need to declare we won't use it as livable space. Obviously won't know more until after Christmas.

I'm going to see if we can get a builder/structural engineer in to see what needs to be done to bring it up to code of it's found not to be. Or if it can be done at all - in which case I think renegotiating is on the table. I'm annoyed they listed as a four bed, it's misleading and it's flagged up this issue with the mortgage valuation.

We still will go for it though, because even just as storage it's much better than what we have now - even if we just use to store kids toys and they can take down and put them away every day, it will be a vast improvement on what we have now!

Just reread the thread and realised that you said it was marketed as a bedroom which is extremely naughty. Suggest you re this. www.myconveyancingspecialist.com/buying-a-house-with-loft-conversion-without-building-regulations/

How old is the house? If it’s Victorian and the attic is original to the house it likely won’t need sign off as it was built before building regs. DS had the same, his sellers did have to get a regularisation cert for the velux and en suite but the main attic was excluded.

@MarieG10 thank you! Very helpful!!

I sold my two bed last year, we converted the attic, strengthened the floor, plasterboard, insulated and skimmed the walls, plug points, radiator, velux escape hatch etc.
We didn't have the certs as our friend a builder did it & as I never intended to move and it was just for us there seemed no point in getting the certs (the work was done 18 years ago.
It sold it as a two bed but one of the selling points to the buyers was the attic.
I took out indemnity insurance for £150 and the buyers were happy with this.
They are definitely using the attic, I've moved round the corner and when I walk past there's always a light shining out of the velux window.
If I were you I'd negotiate on the fact that it's being sold as 4 bed.
Then use the room as you wish.
My advice would be to make sure you can get out in the event of a fire, hence why we put in an escape hatch.

I totally get that people do use attic spaces as bedrooms, however surely in the event of a fire all insurance would be invalid. Even with an escape hatch it won't make the insurers pay up.

I don’t know what an ’escape hatch’ is, but the regulations don’t permit escape windows from a loft anymore. This is why you are now required to provided a protected stair.

Lofts aren’t designed to be lived in, they are structurally inadequate for anything other than very light storage. This is why loft conversions need significant structural upgrades.

If they don’t have certs OP, do not accept an indemnity. It is not worth the paper it’s written on. If the loft was converted after 1985, the sellers can apply to regularise it.