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Original poster

Should I pull out?

33 replies

FirstTimeBuyerScares · 19/12/2023 22:25

Hello!

I'm a 35 y/o first time buyer, 5 months into buying my first house, a 2 bedroom 1930's property around 45 minutes from the Lake District, England. However, I'm currently facing a dilemma on whether to continue with the property purchase or not following a bad Level 2 Homebuyers Survey. The report detailed various issues, include 11 red flags, 10 orange, and only 1 green. The most notable ones include damp, an outdated and potentially dangerous electricity unit, no underfelt beneath the roof slates, no gas safety certificate, and more.

There are many positive aspects about the house outside of the behind the scenes scares, including a very nice lawn garden, quiet road, a modern kitchen, nice decor, and what look like friendly and respectable neighbours.

I've already spent quite a bit on the property purchase so far, such as a mortgage advisor, home buyers survey, accommodation, solicitor fees, and most recently a damp survey. The damp survey discovered rising and penetrating damp and quoted £3300 for a damp proof course injection system.

As well as the above, I'm also now questioning whether it would be more beneficial to have more of a digital nomad lifestyle, as I can effectively work from anywhere. However, that also has it's own question marks due to some health related issues and whether I would be happy to have no base, and lose the investment opportunity that comes with a house purchase.

The sellers estate agent has implied that the vendor is unlikely to budge on the property price.

I could go on with more details but think this is enough to explain the overall situation. So my question is, should I pull out?

Here is a list of the red flag issues:

E1 Roof structure
There is no felt to the underside of the slates/tiles. The risk of water ingress to the roof structure is
higher. Condition rating 3.

E3 Walls and partitions
The ground floor walls were methodically inspected with a protimeter moisture meter, to detect the
presence of damp. High level readings of damp were recorded in the lounge and kitchen diner.
Damp was also observed and recorded to the landing window wall. Damp quotation: £3300

E4 Floors
It is strongly recommended that further intrusive inspection is carried out of the
subfloor timbers prior to commitment to purchase. If the ends of the joists bed into the walls and
have not been wrapped in a protective membrane (which is unlikely, unless the floors have been
re-laid in more recent years) and the walls are damp, moisture can be transferred from the walls
into the timbers which can lead to rot/decay.

E5 Fireplaces, chimney breasts and flues
You should ask your legal adviser to check whether the solid fuel burning appliance has been
safety checked and whether the flue/chimney has been swept within the last 12 months. If this has
not been done, you should ask a HETAS registered engineer to do this prior to purchase.
In the absence of a current test certificate, we must designate a level three risk. If certification is
available, please ask your legal advisor to check the validity of this evidence. Seller does not have certificate.

E7 Woodwork (for example, staircase joinery)
Consumer board is fitted with cartridge fuses rather than circuit breakers. The system is dated and
needs upgrading. It is recommended that at any change of ownership the electrical wiring should
be checked by an NICEIC qualified electrician. Seller has agreed to replace power unit.

F3 WaterThe age of the property suggests that the supply pipe to the water may be of lead and if this is the
case then it should be replaced with modern copper or plastic piping. I (the buyer) used a lead water test kit and the result came back negative.

F4 Heating
Central heating is provided by means of a Worcester gas fired boiler located in the kitchen serving
pressed steel panelled radiators within the property. The radiators did not have thermostatic control
valves. In the absence of a current test certificate, we must designate a level three risk. The seller has agreed to obtain a gas safety certificate.

Many thanks in advance of any responses!

OP posts:
easilydistracted1 · 19/12/2023 22:35

This is all pretty standard for an oldish non City house apart from the damp. It's a red to cover the surveyors back if somethings untested. Not sure on the floor though and electrics need modernising at some point. Did you pay for an independent damp survey as the free ones are just trying to sell stuff. Most surveyors will let you have a call to talk it through. I always say would you buy it. On two houses they've told me informally they'd run for their life. On one they've said it'd fairly standard stuff. And another they laughed their head off and said the survey sounds odd because its clearly been used as a weed farm which I can't put in a survey. Each time the advice was correct. Does the valuation say it's worth what your offering? If so and you can afford future repairs go for it. Negotiate over the damp if its based on a genuine independent survey

Flubadubba · 19/12/2023 23:00

Agree that a lot is standard. Also agree on giving them a call to work out what the real.issues are, and what is arse covering.

The electrics, water, HETAS and heating definitely all read as arse covering to me. I would ask about the damp readings- when we sold out last place, they found a tiny patch where damp was above average. It was where the bloody air brick was (as you might expect). The roof, floors and actual damp are worth asking about further- I would be surprised if it would actually cost £3.5k to rectify (with damp, don't be taken in by people trying to sell you stuff- you need to find the cause, and deal with it. Often the actual cause is much simpler and quicker to deal with!)

If there isn't a HETAS cert (you can check yourself for free, on their website) then that is worth renegotiation, as it can be a huge issue, particularly if it is a woodburner that has be incorrectly installed which means that there is no building control approval (which a HETAS approved installed can grant in lieu of building control. We had this issue when we purchased earlier in the year- the sellers took the burner and offered a reduction, which we have used to properly install a new one.

Was your survey L3, rather than L2? L2 doesn't normally give estimates or damp checks.

Original poster
FirstTimeBuyerScares · 20/12/2023 02:03

easilydistracted1 · 19/12/2023 22:35

This is all pretty standard for an oldish non City house apart from the damp. It's a red to cover the surveyors back if somethings untested. Not sure on the floor though and electrics need modernising at some point. Did you pay for an independent damp survey as the free ones are just trying to sell stuff. Most surveyors will let you have a call to talk it through. I always say would you buy it. On two houses they've told me informally they'd run for their life. On one they've said it'd fairly standard stuff. And another they laughed their head off and said the survey sounds odd because its clearly been used as a weed farm which I can't put in a survey. Each time the advice was correct. Does the valuation say it's worth what your offering? If so and you can afford future repairs go for it. Negotiate over the damp if its based on a genuine independent survey

Thanks for responding. Yes, I paid for a damp survey - I think it was around £170 and the company looked reputable (comprehensive website and lots of good reviews on Google). However, on the MSE forum where I also posted this message, some people said the damp quotation of £3200 seemed expensive.

I did speak to the surveyor and when I asked if I should ask for a reduction in the property price he chuckled and said well....yes :). The estate agent has said a few times the seller doesn't want to reduce the price though. And yes, the valuation matches the offering, which I do think is a bit odd (as in it's exactly the same).

OP posts:
Original poster
FirstTimeBuyerScares · 20/12/2023 02:07

Flubadubba · 19/12/2023 23:00

Agree that a lot is standard. Also agree on giving them a call to work out what the real.issues are, and what is arse covering.

The electrics, water, HETAS and heating definitely all read as arse covering to me. I would ask about the damp readings- when we sold out last place, they found a tiny patch where damp was above average. It was where the bloody air brick was (as you might expect). The roof, floors and actual damp are worth asking about further- I would be surprised if it would actually cost £3.5k to rectify (with damp, don't be taken in by people trying to sell you stuff- you need to find the cause, and deal with it. Often the actual cause is much simpler and quicker to deal with!)

If there isn't a HETAS cert (you can check yourself for free, on their website) then that is worth renegotiation, as it can be a huge issue, particularly if it is a woodburner that has be incorrectly installed which means that there is no building control approval (which a HETAS approved installed can grant in lieu of building control. We had this issue when we purchased earlier in the year- the sellers took the burner and offered a reduction, which we have used to properly install a new one.

Was your survey L3, rather than L2? L2 doesn't normally give estimates or damp checks.

The HETAS question is an interesting point, thanks. I just checked to see it's been raised in any communications and can't find anything - so I've sent that question off to my solicitors. However, it's unlikely I will use the fireplace - I'm not sure if that still has an impact on anything. Do you have the link where you can check online please? The only thing I can find is where you can send off for a replacement cert which is £30.

OP posts:
Scampuss · 20/12/2023 02:19

Anyone suggesting an injected damp course is not reputable, it won't work and will leave unsightly holes all around the house. A 1930s house should have a physical damp proof course and any damp (if it even exists, the damp meters used are unreliable) is likely to be the result of high ground levels breaching the DPC or leaks from gutters, pipes etc.

SingleMum11 · 20/12/2023 02:53

It’s not shocking. But if I were you I’d have at least £10 to 15,000 of your budget to sort out roof, damp, upgrade electrics and gas.

But if you don’t want to spend that, look at new houses or ones that have nothing needed, which is really only newer houses.

DrySherry · 20/12/2023 07:58

Push for 10k off and if necessary agree to 5k reduction. Totally ignore the agents comment regarding the seller not budging. They almost certainly will. If they really won't budge its no harm done. They won't bin you, as a chain free buyer who is so far down the road with the process. You are actually in the driving seat here - but the agent is doing a good job of making you feel your not.

Twiglets1 · 20/12/2023 08:06

I agree with @DrySherry you should push for a reduction because of the survey. That is reasonable and the owners should agree in order to keep the sale on track, assuming they are sensible.

But it isn’t actually that bad for an older house. They all have issues and most of these red flags are easy to put right with a bit of money.

Geneticsbunny · 20/12/2023 08:31

Damp is not usully that expensive to fix, but it can take a while as the best way to sort it out properly is to try different things until you hit the thing which works. The first thing I would try with this survey would be to increase sub floor ventilation. So check exterior ground level is lower than the damp proof course and then make sure there are air bricks and that they arent blocked. This should cost hundreds rather than thousands unless the ground level is ridiculously high!

If the floor isn't springy when you jump on it and isn't at a weird angle then the joists are ok at the moment and aren't rotten. As others have said, that is just the surveyor covering their back.

easilydistracted1 · 20/12/2023 08:34

The only issue will be if the things that came up on the survey should be obvious. The damp probably not unless the walls are dripping. If the electrics looked obvious you might struggle eg you can tell some electrical systems are ancient just looking but this sounds internal. Then it depends if the price factors in the issues you've found. If you're prepared to walk then there's no harm negotiating. I'd definitely want something off. The surveyor usually agrees the price unless it's wildly out because they think is this in a reasonable range. If you walk away you may want to consider a buildings survey next time they are usually a lot more helpful.

olderbutwiser · 20/12/2023 08:38

Echoing PP - nothing unexpected there for a house nearly 100 years old.

I would want to know more about the damp so had a better idea of how fixable it is.

TheSnowyOwl · 20/12/2023 16:26

None of it sounds that bad or unexpected to me. However, it’s understandable if you have justification for necessary work to be carried out and want to go back for a reduction but be prepared for the seller to pull out instead of agreeing. Disregard the Estate Agent’s comments as they want the higher price met for their commission.

Flubadubba · 20/12/2023 16:29

Flubadubba · 20/12/2023 16:22

@FirstTimeBuyerScares
Scroll down and check the postcode here: https://www.hetas.co.uk/consumer/certificates-of-compliance/#:~:text=Simply%20enter%20your%20postcode%20or,the%20certificate%20for%20the%20property.

You'll need to use your email to validate it and get a code (all free).

Edited

BTW: you want to get this all straight before you move in so you know what is on your hands. Even if you don't plan to use it, it could cause difficulties when you come to sell if it doesn't have this in place (essentially it's classed as work that hasn't been approved by building control).

Autumn1990 · 20/12/2023 16:37

Do not have an injection damp proof treatment. It’s probably gutters or soil to high

Everything else is standard but I sounds like it will need the roof doing at some point so get a price for that

Hallmark1234 · 20/12/2023 16:49

The old adage Location, location, location is more important, if it suits you, as virtually anything can be changed/improved in a property, but you can't change the surroundings.

Having said that it depends on whether the valuation has taken into account that the property needs a lot of updating and priced accordingly (compare with others recently sold), although the agent won't have known the extent of the work needed and they tend to value higher, knowing many people will make an offer.

It sounds like you need to spend many thousands of pounds to put things right, so make your offer accordingly IF you really want the property. The seller can say what they like, but if no one is prepared to pay the price, then he's not going to sell!

Plumpciousness · 20/12/2023 17:11

There was a similar thread earlier this year (although about a much older property) and the OP has recently returned with an update that she bought the house and is very happy:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/property/4896733-should-i-walk-away-after-survey?page=3

As others have said, many of those comments sound standard.

The lack of felt under the roof tiles is probably because the roof is still the original or was redone before modern waterproof membranes became standard. Are there a lot of broken tiles or signs of recent (not historic) water ingress?

Lack of TRVs on radiators isn't a big issue.

Damp on the landing window wall (I assume this means it's upstairs) is probably either a leaking gutter/downpipe, or the sealant around the bottom of the window needs replacing.

Prioritise the safety issues: fuel burner, chimney swept, gas boiler.

BloodyAdultDC · 20/12/2023 17:16

My house (1970s semi) would have the same report re roof felt, electric unit, gas/boiler check and lead water pipe. All very, very standard.

The concern is the unknown - damp causing potential trouble with joists etc, plus the potential cost of replacing boiler/electrics etc.

I'd buy it with the rest but the damp would worry me. Depends on your attitude to risk/finances to cover worst case scenario.

Is it mortgageable?

Original poster
FirstTimeBuyerScares · 22/12/2023 21:11

easilydistracted1 · 19/12/2023 22:35

This is all pretty standard for an oldish non City house apart from the damp. It's a red to cover the surveyors back if somethings untested. Not sure on the floor though and electrics need modernising at some point. Did you pay for an independent damp survey as the free ones are just trying to sell stuff. Most surveyors will let you have a call to talk it through. I always say would you buy it. On two houses they've told me informally they'd run for their life. On one they've said it'd fairly standard stuff. And another they laughed their head off and said the survey sounds odd because its clearly been used as a weed farm which I can't put in a survey. Each time the advice was correct. Does the valuation say it's worth what your offering? If so and you can afford future repairs go for it. Negotiate over the damp if its based on a genuine independent survey

Yes avoided the free ones as previously seen some advice on this. The survey was about £180 and the company looked reputable (good website, reviews etc.).

OP posts:
Original poster
FirstTimeBuyerScares · 22/12/2023 21:17

Flubadubba · 20/12/2023 16:22

@FirstTimeBuyerScares
Scroll down and check the postcode here: https://www.hetas.co.uk/consumer/certificates-of-compliance/#:~:text=Simply%20enter%20your%20postcode%20or,the%20certificate%20for%20the%20property.

You'll need to use your email to validate it and get a code (all free).

Edited

Thank you! I checked and it says the property doesn't have the certification unfortunately. So I'm chasing this up now as I'm quite concerned based on what you've said.

OP posts:
Original poster
FirstTimeBuyerScares · 22/12/2023 21:18

BloodyAdultDC · 20/12/2023 17:16

My house (1970s semi) would have the same report re roof felt, electric unit, gas/boiler check and lead water pipe. All very, very standard.

The concern is the unknown - damp causing potential trouble with joists etc, plus the potential cost of replacing boiler/electrics etc.

I'd buy it with the rest but the damp would worry me. Depends on your attitude to risk/finances to cover worst case scenario.

Is it mortgageable?

Agree that the concern is the unknown, particularly because of the lack of certifications for everything.

OP posts:
Original poster
FirstTimeBuyerScares · 22/12/2023 21:23

Plumpciousness · 20/12/2023 17:11

There was a similar thread earlier this year (although about a much older property) and the OP has recently returned with an update that she bought the house and is very happy:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/property/4896733-should-i-walk-away-after-survey?page=3

As others have said, many of those comments sound standard.

The lack of felt under the roof tiles is probably because the roof is still the original or was redone before modern waterproof membranes became standard. Are there a lot of broken tiles or signs of recent (not historic) water ingress?

Lack of TRVs on radiators isn't a big issue.

Damp on the landing window wall (I assume this means it's upstairs) is probably either a leaking gutter/downpipe, or the sealant around the bottom of the window needs replacing.

Prioritise the safety issues: fuel burner, chimney swept, gas boiler.

Thanks for sharing the other thread - I've checked it out and glad it worked out for them. It gives me some encouragement! Yes, certainly agree to prioritise the safety related issues.

OP posts:
Original poster
FirstTimeBuyerScares · 22/12/2023 21:25

BloodyAdultDC · 20/12/2023 17:16

My house (1970s semi) would have the same report re roof felt, electric unit, gas/boiler check and lead water pipe. All very, very standard.

The concern is the unknown - damp causing potential trouble with joists etc, plus the potential cost of replacing boiler/electrics etc.

I'd buy it with the rest but the damp would worry me. Depends on your attitude to risk/finances to cover worst case scenario.

Is it mortgageable?

Thanks - I did think maybe this was an unusual amount of red/orange flags but I'm seeing a consistent stream of 'this is very standard' responses, which is relieving some of my worries.

OP posts:
Flubadubba · 22/12/2023 23:12

@FirstTimeBuyerScares The only reason I know any of this is because our buyers listed their woodburner in the sale particulars, but then decided to take it with them. We questioned it, and it became clear it wasn't properly installed.

We have them two options:

  • rectify and get it fully inspected and signed off
  • or take it and reduce the price by the equivalent of the installation and anee burner.

They did the latter, and we managed to get a new one (much more to our taste!) installed earlier this month (we move in Oct).

It isn't the end of the world, as it can be removed and corrected, but it'll come at a cost. I just would ask for money off, and not use the existing one until something safer is installed.

CharlOctober · 01/02/2024 09:47

Hey @FirstTimeBuyerScares just found your thread, we're in a similar position buying a 1930s house and just got a pretty scary survey back! Just wondering what you decided to do?