Would we be able to get Planning Permission

sasha100 · 2023-12-15T14:19:02+00:00

We brought a property earlier this year. The previous owners have done a lot of work to the house and one of the major changes was moving the garage that was attached to the house to the front of the house. It has been used as a gym The original plans was for the garage to have a flat roof but the previous owners had a 2.5m pitched roof instead. A council inspector came round and reported the garage as it also shouldn't have had patio doors and was slightly longer, We filed the minor amendment to the planning permission but this was refused on the basis of the pitched roof (it seems the patio doors and size was fine) and they said we have to go through a full planning application Please note the garage is away from both neighbours so not blocking any light and it cannot be seen from the front (or road side) as is covered by trees. We use the garage as a gym. No one has complained. We are concerned that we may have to change the roof from pitch to flat. I wondered if anyone has gone through this process and the likelihood of success especially considering we were not the owners at the time the garage was built.

LIZS · 15/12/2023 14:32

Have you checked the original planning as was agreed? These should be publicly available online or at the council offices. Buildings in front often have restrictions on height and use. If it was granted as a garage with flat roof the council can enforce. Someone probably complained , even if it were a neighbour, and may have been denied similar.

LadyDanburysHat · 15/12/2023 14:35

How did your sale go through without this showing up in the searches? My solicitor would have been all over this.

Seeline · 16/12/2023 10:21

I'm a bit confused.

I am assuming that the attached garage was never actually built?

I am assuming that the previous owners never provided an actual garage?

I am assuming that the previous owners just built an outbuilding to their own design in front of the house for which they had no planning permission?

If this is the case, it sounds as though the Council consider the whole building unauthorised and are asking for a retrospective application. Without seeing a plan of where the gym is it's hard to say, but if it is actually between the front of the house and the road, it could be difficult to gain PP. Such buildings are often refused PP due to their visual prominence, impact on street scene etc. The existence of some trees will not necessarily make the scheme more favourable - the Council cannot ensure their retention, or that they be replaced if lost due to disease etc.

Ultimately the Council could require the whole building be removed.

Original poster

sasha100 · 18/12/2023 18:53

The original design roof was flat but the previous owners built a pitch roof. Its not affecting anyone and would be costly as well as inconvenient to change it. Surely the council would need to take this into account that we were not the ones that carried out the changes to the garage.

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Original poster

sasha100 · 18/12/2023 18:54

No its not possible for the solicitors to capture everything.

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DingDongBella · 18/12/2023 18:57

I suspect this will be granted, it’s just that you must apply properly for full permission to be granted.

Original poster

sasha100 · 18/12/2023 18:59

Seeline · 16/12/2023 10:21

I'm a bit confused.

I am assuming that the attached garage was never actually built?

I am assuming that the previous owners never provided an actual garage?

I am assuming that the previous owners just built an outbuilding to their own design in front of the house for which they had no planning permission?

If this is the case, it sounds as though the Council consider the whole building unauthorised and are asking for a retrospective application. Without seeing a plan of where the gym is it's hard to say, but if it is actually between the front of the house and the road, it could be difficult to gain PP. Such buildings are often refused PP due to their visual prominence, impact on street scene etc. The existence of some trees will not necessarily make the scheme more favourable - the Council cannot ensure their retention, or that they be replaced if lost due to disease etc.

Ultimately the Council could require the whole building be removed.

Edited

They had planning permission but the original design was a flat roof and they went with a pitch roof instead. I spoke to some planning consultants and they said this is common and shouldn't be an issue as it is not affecting anyone plus its not visible from the road. Though councils can be obstinate and prepared to appeal if the planning permission gets rejected.

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Peekingovertheparapet · 18/12/2023 19:00

You will need to apply for retrospective planning permission and one of two things will happen…

either permission will be granted and you can forget all about it.

or an enforcement notice will be served and you will have to make alterations to the garage.

in the second scenario I would be seeking damages from the solicitor and/or the previous owner. A solicitor should definitely be checking/bringing to your attention what should have been built vs what was actually built.

Original poster

sasha100 · 18/12/2023 19:01

DingDongBella · 18/12/2023 18:57

I suspect this will be granted, it’s just that you must apply properly for full permission to be granted.

Fingers crossed but I know certain councils can be difficult and could claim it would set a precedent.

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DingDongBella · 18/12/2023 19:08

Flat roofs are ugly and need replacing regularly so I would be more worried if it were the other way around.

LIZS · 18/12/2023 19:09

sasha100 · 18/12/2023 18:53

The original design roof was flat but the previous owners built a pitch roof. Its not affecting anyone and would be costly as well as inconvenient to change it. Surely the council would need to take this into account that we were not the ones that carried out the changes to the garage.

No they won't. It is not compliant and someone has complained.

dontbenastyhaveapasty · 18/12/2023 19:11

sasha100 · 18/12/2023 18:54

No its not possible for the solicitors to capture everything.

Your conveyancing solicitor absolutely should have picked this up. It’s what they’re paid to do.

LIZS · 18/12/2023 19:12

If vendor said it was in accordance with pp they would not physically check though.

Seeline · 18/12/2023 21:08

You said the garage had been moved to the front?
So it's not in the position it was approved and it has the wrong roof?

BlueMongoose · 19/12/2023 20:28

Councils are typically more touchy about anything in front of a house- usually they won't give permission at all for anything in font of the 'building line' which is usually the frontmost bit of the house, though sometimes they'll allow a porch that doesn't project too far. It sounds like whoever built it was pushing their luck big time.
From the council's POV who did it is irrelevant. If you think about it you can see why- person A could build without planing permission (or not keeping to the terms of the PP which is the same thing). They could then sell to person B and the council couldn't enforce planing rules on the property. You can see how easily that could be abused.

DingDongBella · 19/12/2023 20:51

I was assuming the only deviation from the permission given was the type of roof. Did they build it in entirely the wrong place too?

Starseeking · 19/12/2023 21:57

sasha100 · 18/12/2023 18:54

No its not possible for the solicitors to capture everything.

It's a pretty big thing for a conveyancing solicitor to have missed, and also for you not to have noticed that plans signed off were completely different to what you were purchasing.

Jf20 · 19/12/2023 22:01

Forget the solicitor, they don’t visit. Folks are derailing.

ok. You’re going to need a consultant , have you got one? The planning compliance officer should have given you an indication of their thoughts, without a guarantee, what did they say?

Jf20 · 19/12/2023 22:03

DingDongBella · 18/12/2023 18:57

I suspect this will be granted, it’s just that you must apply properly for full permission to be granted.

Generally though if that’s the case, they would say apply for retro, it will likely be approved. That’s what we had to do and were told. Going for minor amendment first seems odd, as doors and roof is not minor.

Ariela · 19/12/2023 22:38

Have a good look around your neighbours - chances are there'll be a few pitched roof garages to the front of the property locally. Should thus be no bother to apply for and get planning retrospectively.

Seeline · 20/12/2023 09:37

Actually, unless you're in a more rural location with houses on large plots, it is really quite unusual to have anything built to the front if properties.

olderbutwiser · 20/12/2023 09:41

Your conveyancers should have picked this up - I’d certainly consider going back to them as they may be liable for your costs if they missed it.

Original poster

sasha100 · 20/12/2023 11:46

olderbutwiser · 20/12/2023 09:41

Your conveyancers should have picked this up - I’d certainly consider going back to them as they may be liable for your costs if they missed it.

I don't know how they could as they would have seen the original plans but how could they know the previous owners had changed the roof to a Pitched Roof.

There were so many other changes in the house with the extensions etc

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Hannahthepink · 20/12/2023 14:41

For the conveyancer issue, it depends on the timeline, which is a bit hazy. If the council had started an enforcement case before you started the purchase, then yes, I'd be really cross if they hadn't informed you.
But whatever the conveyancing situation, whilst it's crappy that the previous owners didn't comply with their PP conditions, unfortunately, it's now your responsibility to put it right.
It sounds like you made an application for non-material amendments? These are used for small changes, but as a pitched roof changes the height of the building, I'm really surprised that you were advised to try this route.
You will need to submit a Householder Application for PP, it's about £300 now, detailing the extension as it has been built.
Best case scenario, they approve your application straight away and the works are signed off and the enforcement case is dropped.
If it's refused, your planning officer will advise you in your next steps.

Original poster

sasha100 · 28/12/2023 00:16

Hannahthepink · 20/12/2023 14:41

For the conveyancer issue, it depends on the timeline, which is a bit hazy. If the council had started an enforcement case before you started the purchase, then yes, I'd be really cross if they hadn't informed you.
But whatever the conveyancing situation, whilst it's crappy that the previous owners didn't comply with their PP conditions, unfortunately, it's now your responsibility to put it right.
It sounds like you made an application for non-material amendments? These are used for small changes, but as a pitched roof changes the height of the building, I'm really surprised that you were advised to try this route.
You will need to submit a Householder Application for PP, it's about £300 now, detailing the extension as it has been built.
Best case scenario, they approve your application straight away and the works are signed off and the enforcement case is dropped.
If it's refused, your planning officer will advise you in your next steps.

The issue arose six months after we brought the property as the council came round to check. The Garage was built six months before we brought the property.

We had used the same planning consultant that was involved in getting planning permission for the seller. I think it was my fault we opted for the non-material amendments as the council official hinted that maybe an option.

I recall the Property Information Form asked "Is the Seller aware of the breaches of planning permissions or Building Regulations consent conditions or Building Regulations Consent Conditions, unfinished work or work does not have all the necessary consents. Maybe the Seller would be in breach and liable for any costs.

I don't think we can go after the Solicitor as it would be impossible for them to know.

Yes will pursue this all the way if necessary.

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