Party Wall Advice - LA

[gardenwoe]

We are looking to make some changes to our ex-local authority semi detached house.

We will be knocking down an internal wall and our builder has said we will need a steel put in to support, in place of the wall (totally expected) and we have someone coming out this week to take measurements and do the structural calculations/diagrams for this.

What I hadn't considered was that we would need a Party Wall Agreement (for some stupid reason I thought they were only for external walls such as an extension) The steel will be going across the house and resting on one of the walls that is attached to our neighbour (the other side of the semi)

We do not have a good relationship with our neighbours sadly (ongoing harassment- there has been some minimal police involvement) and so now at our instigation there is to be no contact from them to us at all.

So my question is, who should I notify about the Party Wall agreement? They are long term housing association tenants, and if we were on good terms i would have no hesitation in addressing it to them and letting them notify the council/HA if that was necessary.

Now that we have a 'no contact' situation with them (which their local housing association manager is fully aware of) I don't know if it is right for me to break that by sending it to them, or just sending it to the HA and hoping they deal with it.

I don't even know who makes the decision on LA houses with regards to PWA's - is it the official 'owner' I.e. the council, or the residents?
That might make it easier to decide who to address it to...

Does anyone have any experience of this?

I’ ve done this once (re loft conversion) so no expert but I think you notify the owners. Although always good generally to give occupiers a heads up re building work. I’d at least start by discussing/notifying owners https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/preventing-and-resolving-disputes-in-relation-to-party-walls/the-party-wall-etc-act-1996-explanatory-booklet#part-3-adjoining-ownersoccupiers

we have a small section of remaining wall that the steel rests on downstairs so didn’t need party wall agreement. Best of luck with it all!

Get a party wall surveyor and get them to deal with all contact. Worth every penny if already not a great relationship. Google Find a Surveyor to find one in your area.

Just coming back to this thread to see if anyone else can help?

I spoke directly withe the housing association to see who i should issue the party wall notice to, and they said to them. So I duly emailed it over and gave them the standard letter with 14 days notice....that has expired and other than a standard email back saying they would forward on to the local Housing manager - I haven't heard anything. (I did also add to the email that if they deemed it necessary I would be happy to notify the residents/tenants living there as well as them at the HA)

So I believe i have to give them another 10 days to respond, and then we are classed as in dispute and I will need to appoint a surveyor if they continue to just ignore the notice (which I am more than prepared to do) but I am wondering if bureaucratic procedures are just going to hold this up even more...

Should I just bite the bullet and issue another notice to the neighbours directly - i am almost certain they are going to dispute it and I will need to pay for a surveyor for them anyway but it just might be faster?

Has anyone been in this situation where there are two parties to be considered for the Party Wall ? Or any surveyors out there that can offer some advice?

And sorry to tag you directly @stevenway1 but I see you have offered advice previously and would be grateful for your wisdom!

It's absolutely nothing to do with your neighbours because they are not the owners. You need to appoint a surveyor and let them sort it out

@Flopsythebunny thanks Flopsy, they are very longstanding council tenants (20+ years) in a secure tenancy, does that make any difference?

No difference at all. One of my daughters went through this last year.

Ok great, thanks for your help. I will give them the 10 day notice and take it from there. I've already got a surveyor lined up who did our report when we bought the place.
Thanks again

The occupants don't own the building. It's nothing to do with them. That said, I think you should let them know that work is imminent so as not to piss them off any more, and let them know it's being done with the consent of their landlord.

I'm not surprised the HA are slow to respond but would expect them to want to appoint a surveyor anyway (and so they should, to protect an investment held in trust). They may even have their own surveyor who they used for all property matters. Hopefully they will let you know within the official deadlines. I think that appointing your own PWS in this circumstance is essential so make sure it all goes as smoothly as it can.

@gardenwoe Steve the PW Surveyor here.

Yes, send them a 10-day letter.

If they do not reply, you can appoint a surveyor for them. But, you cannot appoint an "agreed surveyor" because they evidently have not agreed. You will also need to appoint a surveyor to act for you, and I would ask that surveyor to suggest a surveyor for next door. All PW surveyors have good professional colleagues who will be pragmatic, quick and not usually expensive.

Happy to take a PM on this.

( @Flopsythebunny , @FaceMaker ) The secure tenancy makes a difference; the Act says that notice should be served to all those with an interest of greater than 12 months in a property and that will include tenants whose tenancies exceed 12 months. Arguably that includes secure tenants, as that is a lifetime tenancy.

Thanks @stevenway1 I have dropped you a DM!

Hi! I know this is an old thread, but we are in exactly your situation. Can you share with me your outcome?

Hi @SpoonySnail
We issued the notice to the LA, I really didn't want to involve the neighbours. I emailed them the notice and then had to give them a chase up. When they didn't respond within the 10 days it automatically meant we were technically in dispute. I then had to send them another letter to say we were in dispute and they had to appoint a surveyor or we would on their behalf. Next thing I was contacted by their surveyor who we agreed to work with as well (it saves money if both parties use the same one and they are completely independent) They went out to the neighbours house, we supplied our structural drawings and the Award was drawn up.

Work starts early next year - think the award is only valid for a year and we had it done in May, but things beyond our control have delayed things.

All the templates are online, and @stevenway1 was very helpful and generous with his advice.

Do you have an ok relationship with your neighbours? That will be a real help if so!

We have a dreadful relationship with the neighbors and they have been advised not to contact us in anyway again or they’ll be in breech of their tenancy. We had sold but can’t find anything suitable to move to. So we have decided to stay and modify our house. They have truly made life hell for the last 8 years with threats, abuse and foul language. I just hope they can’t block this!

And yes there has also been minimal police involvement too.

Oh god I feel your pain..... sounds like a very similar situation.
TBH the Housing Association were fine, had minimal contact with them - once the surveyor was appointed I just dealt with them. They can't actually prevent you doing the work (well unless you need planning application etc, but even then there's not much they can do if it's passed by the planning department)
However I can't say I'm looking forward to when the actual work starts, I suspect the neighbours will be looking for any and every excuse to find fault or complain.

Thank you so much!