Heat pump/ solar panels

[newandconfused5]

We have recently been accepted for a fully funded installation of a heat pump with solar panels.

I live in a 400 year old cottage that is electric only. We have double glazed windows and modern electric heaters. We have a very old Emerson water tank that we were due to get replaced.

Is a heat pump in a property like this old a good idea?

As part of the installation they would be insulating the walls of the house too.

Would a heat pump be efficient? And would it add value to the house do you think?

It's a huge amount of work and at a large coast which would be government funded.

Is this a no brainier? Or a bad idea?

Currently the heaters we have were installed about four years ago (replacing storage heaters). Our electric bills are high due to heating the water twice a day.

It's is a three bed semi cottage ( family of 5 with three you children).

Thanks in advance

A small radiator in a large kitchen with no UFH won’t work well with a heatpump - they don’t get hot (as they are on all the time). We have a large kitchen and had to swap two small radiators for two fairly large ones to get enough warmth and we mostly have it set to 19 degrees so not exactly toasty (it can do warmer if we want)

I mean it could in theory work but you’d be cold and wouldn’t necessarily save any money. You really need to speak to a heating engineer that understands how these things work not one that will just install one and do a runner (which exist via the various grants). Plenty of horror stories on here about mnetters who have ended up with a heatpump and a cold house, mostly because they didn’t get a proper installer in the first place

Solar alone might be worth it. How is your loft insulated? I'd be dubious about insulating the walls simply due to construction type of a 400 year old building.

Thank you all!! In a way I am glad it is such a mixed response, because that justifies why I am feeling concerned!
To answer a few questions.
The scheme is fully funded and would be approx £50k worth of work (which is huge!) I also understand that you are given £1500 to redecorate afterwards. To my knowledge they leave walls skimmed and ready to be painted. All pipe work and radiators are included. No mention of under floor heating I don't think.
Loft currently has standard insulation stuffed in it! Not sure how good that is up there though!

Our neighbours have just recently had the work done in a similar property. They have only just had this work completed, so although I can see the finished look.. I have no idea how good the system is, or how much it is to run as the work literally
Completed two weeks ago. They are happy so far but it's very early days.
The whole system was put in by a team over a month period, so it was quick, but intense!

Although for us our current system costs a lot to run, but it works perfectly well.

We would need a new electric board as when we looked at replacing the current water system, this was a requirement for the work to be completed. So it needs to be done too. I have no idea if this will be included too. We have someone coming out to look at the house next week and discuss our options.

I feel such a responsibility to the property and putting in such a system will see invasive work being done and holes being drilled through the walls! BUT currently the electric heating is modern but the water system must be around 30 years old.. and free solar panels have got to be a bonus surely as this way, they won't have to pay for themselves because we didn't pay for them... they will just be an asset.
I don't know. I know heat pumps are great in new builds. But feel like it could be a mistake to shove one on a house like this!!

EWI in a house that’s already damp will be a disaster.

I think it's absolutely amazing that you can get a grant for all the work mentioned, OP. But there's a lot of people voicing doubts about whether it will be effective, if it will increase your bills, if insulation will cause damp.

I don't think you should look a gift horse in the mouth, but I do think you should take advice from the group I previously mentioned who specialise in advising on old homes. You can post there anonymously if you like.

Add as much info as you can, including photos.

Your old house UK - repair and conservation (on Facebook).

I am wondering if you can get some of the measures implemented but not all of them. Whether you can use the grant to help your home without damaging the fabric of the building, or increasing your running costs.

I would make it absolutely clear at the beginning of your post that your income is such that you get this for free and couldn't otherwise afford it, because they can be territorial about old houses and sometimes a bit vicious about protecting them at all costs. But they will want to help you - just choose your wording carefully.

My husband’s job is to train people how to survey for and install air and ground source heat pumps.

We are mid renovation of an older property at the moment and we are installing underfloor heating, improving insulation, new rads etc etc in readiness for having an air source heat pump in the future however husband says that he has such low confidence in the current systems on the market that he doesn’t wish to swap over from the existing oil fired system just yet.

Thank you everyone!

My doubts have been echoed by you all!

Really appreciate your time to reply. I will update after our appointment next week.

Thanks again

Air source heat pumps are most efficient with under floor heating. Otherwise you need massive radiators in all rooms.

We are building a brand new house with ASHP and solar. Insulation levels are top notch, all the latest tech and solar covers half the roof space (on a 5,000 sq ft house).

We did consider a major refurb on the existing property (1950s) but it would have been almost impossible to get it all working efficiently. Location is rural and not on mains gas so all electric. I would be very scared about adding it to a 400 year old cottage.

Through ECO4 funding, you can only have solar panels in conjunction with an ASHP.

@newandconfused5

I just wanted to check you've definitely had confirmation you're having that £50k funded? I administer ECO for an LA and as a general rule, it's never a guarantee that there isn't some level of contribution from householders for the larger valued projects.

Usually it works like this:

• You have an installer come out to survey, they suggest the best improvements for your property and draw up a rough cost.
• They submit paperwork to the LA (if you're not going down a means tested benefit route) who determines if the householders are eligible (low income, health condition etc.)
• Once confirmed, they then present all information to the energy company, who will then score the property and give the installer a total of funding they are willing to give for that property (which isn't necessarily the full amount).
• This is presented to you to make a final decision.

@fr4zzledmum

How does it work if you are going down the means tested benefit route?

It's the same process except you don't need to do an application to the LA (through your installer) to declare your household as eligible.

Just want to echo @MojoMoon's comment
Yes they can definitely work well in these circumstances BUT the system has to be designed AND installed properly and there is a shortage of people who can do that.
Unlike a traditional boiler they actually need to do bespoke calculations for your house rather than whack any system in. This is why you hear about them not working/ being problematic & prohibitively expensive because they haven't fitted the right thing and they are less forgiving than boilers.
Heatgeek is a fab resource to set you on the right path and can probably help with some of your own understanding on the subject so I would recommend checking their website out.

Also I def would not proceed with anyone that doesn’t know how to do a heat loss calculation and design any system around it. As pp said it’s not a case of just whacking it in like with a boiler.

Is your house listed?

EWI is a terrible idea for a solid walled house. As others have said, it will have a deleterious effect on the fabric of the building.

Not listed but solid walls...

The grand has been means tested and we have been accepted on medical grounds.

So it has been passed by the LA and we have someone coming out to have a look next week. I guess we will find out then if it will all be funded or not.

It does seem risky.

But as I have said. We don't plan to be here for much than 5 years. We would like a bigger property has have 3 children's and only 3 bedrooms at the moment. So will be looking to sell in the nearish future

Hello - just chipping in to say that all installs under ECO4 have to be installed by a Trustmark registered installer and under the latest PAS standards for whole house retrofit. That means that they should consider the house as a whole, what measures are suitable and include things like adequate ventilation if they decide to do a lot of insulation. It’s totally bespoke. You should get a retrofit coordinators report which explains everything they are doing. It also comes with guarantees and a redress process should anything not be right, if that helps.

if you are on electric heating at the moment, you should see a saving on your bills, no matter how much insulation you put in. They may decide the property is better suited to a high temperature heat pump and less insulation (but that should still represent a saving on your current set up, even without solar panels). You should ask about likely energy bills, they should be able to model them for you.

interested in how the visit goes!

Little update.. if anyone is interested!

The appointment today was with an independent surveyor. He just came to put together a report of his findings from the house. He then sends that off to the heating company that do all calculations and check the suitability and efficiency of the system.

So no real update really. Very thorough visit which took over 3 hours to compete.

So still have lots of questions to ask but hopefully after todays visit, there will be lots of information to go off of.

Currently getting a heat pump and solar panels installed in my Victorian terrace along with internal insulation on the external walls, fully govt funded.

Aside from my two up two down Victorian terrace, we have a big old Edwardian on our hands, and were told it would be so stupid to get a heat pump in there, but with my house being a small, old house with just me and DP, a heat pump wouldn't be shooting myself in the foot.

Be very choosy about the installer and surveyor, get unbiased advice about whether a heat pump would be right for your needs and the size of your house, and be warned, heat pumps are FUGLY.

The survey guy cancelled on me, and didn't turn up without a word to one of the appointments - when he did turn up, he said everything was good to go r.e the installation. When the lads came round for the insulation (which needed to be done + solar panels before the heat pump), they said 'we can't do this' as the electric meter needed to be moved. The insulation installers are on with the job now, but I was originally told two days. Now it's a week. We've been without hot water or heating for over a month, and now we can only live in one room of the house.

I think these people can TTP because they're getting paid regardless and they're not getting paid by me.

Thank you for sharing your experience.
This is what my neighbours found. It was a month without heating and hot water. The company were based 1.5 hours away so they factored this in to their working time. So they only worked 10am-3pm in the house daily.
I'm not sure how I would cope with three small children and no hot water or heating.
I dont think I'm brave enough!

I would be very very wary of cowboy installers. The absolute USP of a period property is it’s ‘periodness’. I have seen some total bodge jobs by cowboys on normal modern buildings, they really don’t care. Be very careful.

What is the criteria to get this level of funding? Who is it available for?

Oh gosh

ours were brilliant I think they were mostly done in a week and then came back another twice/three times for tweaks

we weren’t left without hot water at all and electricity went off for short periods (2/3 minutes) at agreed times

but we commissioned them and we paid them. And they came at a time of our choosing. It could have been very different if that wasn’t the case.

ps if you get it done in the summer then you don’t have to worry about no heating. So that was easy for us (late April as it happened, so not as warm as all that)

https://eco4.org.uk/

We got it as private tenants with a household income under £31k and someone with a respiratory disease (e.g. COPD)