Heat pump/ solar panels

Original poster

newandconfused5 · 06/12/2023 19:59

Sorry to drop feed.. we also have a log burner in the living room that we use in the evening..

OP posts:

MojoMoon · 06/12/2023 23:56

A heat pump can absolutely work.

But it is important it is sized correctly for the heat loss of your house and the system designed correctly and that the quality of the installation is good.

The people designing and installing the system matter.

If you can find a Heat Geek trained installer, that would be best

https://www.heatgeek.com/heat-geek-elite/

Heat Geek Elite - HeatGeek

Heat Geek Elite engineers undergo stringent additional checks to make sure they have to the industry leading knowledge to install your heat pump.

https://www.heatgeek.com/heat-geek-elite

RNBrie · 07/12/2023 00:05

As you're already fully electric it can only be a good thing. We found running an air source heat pump was twice the price of heating with a gas boiler but you should make some sort of saving given that you're not switching from gas.

Agree with pp that it needs to be the right set up for your property. Ours was put in with the wrong size pump and its been a pain in the arse to get it all working properly.

They can be expensive to service/repair and not many people are available who have the skills to do it.

KievLoverTwo · 07/12/2023 00:54

I would be concerned about adding internal insulation to a 400 year old cottage. It could cause damp issues. See the Facebook Group: Your Old House UK - Repair and Conservation.

There was a post about internal insulation a few days ago. It was a heated discussion.

I actually doubt it will change your bills because electric is still expensive and they have to run 24/7.

I came across an old brick building with one the other day. I would guess it was about 150 years old. The EPC was still a C.

It will add value if it improves the EPC. But I can't tell you if it legitimately will, due to the running costs. It will make the building more eco friendly? But cheaper? The jury is out. I have definitely read examples of one or two removing them because their bills went up.

KievLoverTwo · 07/12/2023 01:13

Sorry, that should have read the EPC was still an E on the old brick building.

ImNunTheWiser · 07/12/2023 01:22

What is the scheme you’re talking about? As you say it’s fully funded I presume you’re not talking about the £7500 government grant towards a heat pump installation?

KievLoverTwo · 07/12/2023 02:09

I too am confused about what you are referring to. I wasn't aware of any grants that do both insulation and heat pumps and solar panels too.

Are you getting confused? Has someone misled you, and you have to pay for the insulation and solar?

The other thing to think about is people often need radiators twice the size/number for them to be effective (especially in older properties); are they paying for those too?

The assessor will tell you if you need them.

I am not trying to put you off but please also bear in mind there are a very limited number of installers and engineers in the country, we are just not getting them trained quickly enough to keep up with demand, so any maintenance or repairs could cost more and take a lot longer to pin someone down to do the work.

MarieG10 · 07/12/2023 05:56

I would be extremely cautious about putting this in unless your levels of insulation are very high and frankly you oversize the heat pump. I have a colleague who has moved into house conversion and is constantly freezing. She hates it as well as the automated controls that are supposed to learn and switch it in automatically but it doesn't learn and is constantly cold.

The technology is still developing. But if you are already electric only it might be more of a need to move

Cozytoesandtoast00 · 07/12/2023 06:02

My husband is a sustainability director and he’s insisted on a heat pump, loads of solar panels and an electric car as way of substantially reducing bills as we get older. Apparently it should all pay for itself in three years.
You need to get an EPC certificate to make sure areas are adequately heated and that you qualify for the government £7000 grant (I think)
my husband sorted it all so not sure about the finer details!

hannahcolobus · 07/12/2023 07:09

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Original poster

newandconfused5 · 07/12/2023 07:16

Thank you all for your replies.. and some very valid questions to ask which I am very grateful for!

My head is too I'm a spin with the option to put this In.

To answer a few questions (that I know the answers to)... the property is currently unrated for energy efficiency. So whatever rating we get after this would be a bonus!!

It is fully funded (which is amazing). My reservations are about the actual heat pump not being efficient and the wrong size etc. insulation does have to be done to the external walls of the property. These walls are currently plastered anyway, so it wouldn't be going over original stonework (someone already took this original feature away!)

Our current heating is great. Modern electric and log burner on cold nights. Are water system is terrible so it would be brilliant to replace this.

Solar again a bonus I suppose.

I just feel like it could be a terrible decision in this houses history! Very invasive. But would it being nit up to modern living in a lovely way.

Questions, questions!!

Thank you all for your replies

OP posts:

StillWantingADog · 07/12/2023 07:19

We have recently been accepted for a fully funded installation of a heat pump with solar panels.
I don’t know what you mean here. Are you in the UK?

anyway I have both and am very happy but it sounds difficult to do well in a 400 year old cottage tbh. You need a good heating engineer that specialises in heat pumps that can help with the heat loss calculations. And somewhere to put it (ours is in the garden but out of sight of everyone).

we live in a very modern house with good insulation and had to replace most of our radiators. Several months on we’re happy but it’s not been a money saving decision.

I just don’t get how @Cozytoesandtoast00 thinks it could pay for itself in 3 years. We have 13 solar panels and imagine the solar will pay for itself in 7-8 years. The heatpump possibly never will, but your set up sounds very expensive so possibly could do, only if you house is deemed suitable tho.

LizzieSiddal · 07/12/2023 07:24

I too would be worried about insulating a 400 year old cottage.
We live in one and recently had damp problems and had to have all the mortar replaced on one wall with lime mortar which has solved the issue. However it was the fact the walls couldn’t breathe which was causing the damp, it’s important they can do this as you’ll have no foundations and damp course. How will your walls breathe if you’re insulating them inside?

Original poster

newandconfused5 · 07/12/2023 07:27

Also worth mentioning (and sorry for the drip feed).. we would be looking to move in the next 5 years. As it is fully funding it wouldn't need to pay for itself in our eyes. Better that it adds a bit of value or just saleability to it.

Damp in our house is a bit of a problem as you would expect. So this is a concern of mine too.

Thank you all. Very valid points.

OP posts:

StillWantingADog · 07/12/2023 07:30

newandconfused5 · 07/12/2023 07:27

Also worth mentioning (and sorry for the drip feed).. we would be looking to move in the next 5 years. As it is fully funding it wouldn't need to pay for itself in our eyes. Better that it adds a bit of value or just saleability to it.

Damp in our house is a bit of a problem as you would expect. So this is a concern of mine too.

Thank you all. Very valid points.

I’m not convinced it will add value to the house tbh. Def not if it isn’t well installed.

as for solar, I’m really not convinced that any 400 year old roof would be suitable for solar. But happy to be wrong.

Original poster

newandconfused5 · 07/12/2023 07:35

Luckily the roof is around 20 years old!..

But not sure about any of the supporting structure underneath?! So another valid point! Thank you

OP posts:

StillWantingADog · 07/12/2023 07:55

I’d be interested to know how you get on op. Everything I have read and learnt suggested that heat pumps
are only really suitable in very modern properties or otherwise as part of a complete refurb. Our own installer only does total refurbs and new builds.

that all said I know in Norway they all have them and they must have a very mixed housing stock there. And if it’s being fully funded then it changes the goalposts dramatically but I struggle to believe that fully funded would include all the pipe and radiator installation (and resulting redecorating) that we had to do. Very happy to be wrong!

ImNunTheWiser · 07/12/2023 08:28

Ah, ok, Eco4 makes sense now. Though like the previous comment, I have only read about how it is almost impossible to make old houses sufficiently insulated and upgraded to make ASHP systems efficient and viable. Which is why we didn’t go ahead in our property. And again as per pp, does it genuinely include all the pipework, enormous radiators and redecoration costs too? I’d also assume that in an old house underfloor heating would be required downstairs to make sure it was adequately heated? Which is one reason why it’s usually new builds and houses already undergoing full renovation already that go ahead with it. If so, that work alone (not including the solar panels) must be in the region of £25-30k? So, that would, on the face of it, look like £30k+ worth of improvements should add to the value of your house. But, of course that’s only if it does prove to be fully efficient, adequately heated, and not extortionate to run. And in five years time I’d be concerned it could be a minus in such an old property rather than a plus. Is there anyway to see recommendations from householders who have actually done this in properties of a similar age and build?

StillWantingADog · 07/12/2023 09:00

Indeed, underfloor heating would probably be the way to go, and would possibly eliminate the need for radiators

but that’s VERY expensive. And even if the grant covered the UFH I doubt it would pay for a new floor?!

PocketSand · 07/12/2023 09:24

I have recently been accepted onto a fully funded scheme run by my LA if you meet certain criteria and am awaiting visits from the assessors to see what insulation (loft) and walls is needed and then heat pump and solar panels. I assume I can ask about radiators and piping at that point. The cost of necessary extras do worry me but I can't see how the scheme would work if they weren't included as if you could afford to pay thousands on top, you wouldn't meet the financial criteria.

ImNunTheWiser · 07/12/2023 09:32

PocketSand · 07/12/2023 09:24

I have recently been accepted onto a fully funded scheme run by my LA if you meet certain criteria and am awaiting visits from the assessors to see what insulation (loft) and walls is needed and then heat pump and solar panels. I assume I can ask about radiators and piping at that point. The cost of necessary extras do worry me but I can't see how the scheme would work if they weren't included as if you could afford to pay thousands on top, you wouldn't meet the financial criteria.

Yes, I don’t know precise details about the scheme but I’d be worried that the contractors providing the services will have a sufficient incentive to get the work done that it might not always be done to the utmost extent required if aspects of it are not covered. So, will there be underfloor heating (because will be most efficient but extremely costly) or will they assure the homeowner that radiators will be fine. Will the there be so much work that a redecoration will definitely be required but not included. etc etc

Handsnotwands · 07/12/2023 09:41

as a conservation type i would caution very strongly against insulating an old building. what's it made of? SPAB and Historic England have a wealth of information about energy saving and keeping warm whist maintaining the integrity of your old house

PocketSand · 07/12/2023 09:49

There's been no mention of underfloor heating and no mention of needing to replace radiators even though they are barely adequate to bring the temperature up to a decent level on oil with the heating on all day in some rooms - eg the kitchen is fairly large but only has one small radiator. There are just warnings that running costs will be more expensive. Does it cost more to run an inadequate system? I will make sure I question the assessors before I commit.

plinkyplonkyploo · 07/12/2023 09:52

Another recommendation to use a heat geek installer. They really know their stuff and I think in future they are looking to guarantee running costs.

febbabies2023 · 07/12/2023 09:58

Just be aware that depending on the size of the heat pump and the size of your existing incoming fuse you may require an upgrade to your supply which could be another cost factor which I doubt would be covered by the grant so be sure to check this with an electrician for what your ADMD would be