If you use a wood burning stove - what would change your mind?

[letmeeatinpeace]

I live in a densely populated area in London, and the smoke from wood burners seems to be getting worse each year (it's coming into our home).

I'm intrigued to hear from people who use wood burners whether there's anything that would possibly change your mind to stop using them?

I would really love to persuade our smoke-producing neighbours to be more considerate and switch them off, or at least switch to something smokeless, so any tips on how to go about it in a positive way would be much appreciated.

I don't actually know which property it's coming from - it's probably several.

Would dropping leaflets with useful info about smokeless fuel, and proper stove usage be appreciated..? I'm pretty desperate..! (I'm borderline asthmatic, and really worry about my dc's exposure)

Also, is smokeless fuel genuinely smokeless?

(I will also go down the route of contacting my council, if needed, but I just don't imagine they'd do much specially as we don't know where it's coming from)

You honestly can't understand why people would want cleaner air for their children?

I agree they look cosy, but I just couldn't make my kids breathe in the damaging particulates simply for the sake of appearances.

@SutWytTi

I agree they look cosy, but I just couldn't make my kids breathe in the damaging particulates simply for the sake of appearances.

Oh give over! So much pearl clutching. Your kids are not going to suffer because you’ve lit a log burner for goodness’ sake!

for all the woodburner denialists, perhaps you want to check your actual levels of pollutants in your postcode , www.addresspollution.org/results/9d6c5cca-262c-47d6-96e0-ecd9ef73ae0ago . domestic wood burning is the large source of Pm2.5 in the UK
""New wood burning stoves billed as more environmentally friendly still emit 750 times more tiny particle pollution than a modern HGV truck, a report has shown.
Only stoves that meet the ecodesign standard can be legally sold from the start of 2022 in the UK and EU, but experts said the regulation was shockingly weak.
The report used data on the emissions produced by stoves in perfect laboratory conditions and the pollution could be even higher in everyday use, the researchers said, with older stoves being much worse."""

Ive put my postcode in but nothing happens

I agree. I live in an Edwardian terrace and wouldn't want it pulled down, but we need to have a sense of priorities about the relative importance of pretty landscape vs affordable energy supply vs a liveable climate when it comes to solar panels on roofs, double/treble glazing, pylons, onshore wind turbines.

This response is so strange. Breathing in smoke is bad for lungs - this is not new information.

How can you possibly think it would not be worse for lungs than not breathing it in?

That isn't what I meant. I mean that they are not interchangeable terms. Particulates are a sub set of pollution. Which is why the infographics about it being the same as running a diesel lorry in your living room are just nonsense. Running a lorry in your living room would create a whole lot more than elevated particulate levels.

https://airqualitynews.com/features-opinion/stove-industry-alliance-responds-to-wood-burning-stove-and-hgv-comparison/

Not quite as straightforward as the report would make it out, however obviously this article is from the stove industry so they have some skin in the game. Makes some good points though and something I referenced back in the thread that the comparisons and the evidence used doesnt stand up to scrutiny.

I saw a really interesting post on reddit where someone was measuring the air quality in their house when using the woodburner. Didn't seem that bad when using it sensibly.

Personally, I like the extra warmth and cosiness. It's on once a week or so and we are very conscious of how and what we burn. I know that as an environmental scientist this makes me a bit of a hypocrite. But then I also drive a car and fly abroad every few years.

You do realise that owners of log burners dont sit there with the door open, using wet wood breathing in all the smoke

I dont know why its hard to accept that the particulate levels (and I can only speak for my home) havent been impacted by our burner.

You need to remove 'bit of a' from your post!

I gave up my car because I couldn't handle being a hypocrite when moaning about traffic fumes!

We have a wood burning stove although we live in a remote area with no immediate neighbours. We like the stove not only for the look/atmosphere, but also to 'hedge' our exposure to oil and electricity. We are surrounded by an abundance of free wood.

But I don't think I would ever run a wood stove in a dense environment such as London. The city is polluted enough.

The testing shows most burners do release particulates into the home.

I haven't read any papers based on your home, but happy to read them if they exist. Of course I accept you hold a different opinion to me, but I am not going to change my own opinion based on some random internet posts you make.

In the earlier report I posted there is a comparison between wood stove and gas boiler (g pollutant per GJ house heating) :

Wood burner / gas boiler

PM2.5 375/0.1
BC 22/0.1
NOX 90/22
SO2 14/0.5
CH4 140/1
CO 3440/22

Plus some other stuff. The results aren't good for wood burning.

Papers based on my home!!!!

Joker!

Im simply setting out my own experience with my air monitor, which Im very pleased I got.

Everything releases particulates as I have discovered since getting it. However the monitor goes amber and red when doing other things, other than having the burner on

Ive now got the website working for showing the pollution in our area, the whole street is amber - demand action - however the closer down the street you go to the main road (which I wouldnt say is particularly busy) the higher the levels, quite substantially.

Im not going to worry and Im not trying to change your mind, Im simply talking about my own experience. Sorry if that irritates you

Sadly, I don't think statistics are going to change the mind of anyone who prioritises their own comfort and pleasure, not to mention cost savings over air quality and impact on the climate. I accept that these are all important factors and understand that no one likes being told to change how they live, but this is what we face, unfortunately. People still feel entitled to various things which pollute, including unlimited air travel and so on.

On the new buildings vs demolishing argument, I think the latter makes a lot of sense for offices / retail / industrial premises, but the issue with homes is that we need more of them, plus retro-fitting is less disruptive and more practical in many cases. I'm retro-fitting a semi-detached property, for example. To demolish I would have had to get the neighbours on board, which would have been tricky! Demolishing homes might make sense where flats are replacing large houses, or where there are many older homes in a location and all are unoccupied / in a bad state of repair.

It doesn't irritate me at all @bellac11

I wouldn't introduce a known source of pollution into my living room is all I am saying. You saying you have tested your house is of no scientific value, is my point.

Of course air pollution is worse nearer to main roads. That is a separate matter.

It would cost me, in my small terrace house, £25 a day and that's on a tracker tariff which is 20% cheaper than most people are paying right now. I can well believe it.

I struggle to accept these numbers, as £25/day = £750/month on gas alone - I have never lived in a property that used anything like that much gas, including when living in a historic building (pretty draughty!).

I live in a small terraced house and my direct debit for gas and electricity combined is less than £100 per month. @StellarSue , you may have a problem with your meter.

There was someone earlier claiming £100 a day. @7p per kwh (gas) that equates to about 1.5 megawatt hours a day. You'd need a 60 kw boiler running at full power 24/7 to generate that amount of energy.

We live in a rural area where a lot of the houses all have wood burners or the original open fire. We still have the fire, though only make one on really cold evenings. Nice bit of extra heat, particularly for my mum too who is 84.

Though on the other hand we will probably get some solar panels next year and eventually change the gas boiler for a heat pump.

Classic gas meter problem is the meter running in m3 but the customer being billed in ft3 x100.

It works out about 3x more expensive than it should be.

A cost effective alternative in my small rural village.

My closest neighbours are 25m away, and I don't hear them or smell their wood burner. I have a modern log burner, properly installed, chimney lined and swept annually.

I have free wood, that is stored & dried year on year. I'm currently burning an ash tree we took down in 2021, and am busy splitting logs from a sallow that had to be felled in April this year.

If I don't burn it, I'd have to hire several skips and send it to the tip. So I can either pay about £500 each tree for someone to take it away, or I can burn it and save £1,500 a year off my heating bill.

Which would you do?

@MintJulia , fair points. In your shoes, and assuming I was unable to save the trees from being felled, I would plant new trees to replace them.