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Original poster

Neighbour fence/boundary dispute

32 replies

passmethebaileys · 26/11/2023 08:58

My first post here, I'm just after some advice please as we are at the start of a potential boundary dispute with our neighbours.
We have lived here since June 2011 and the fence that currently runs between us and neighbour has always been there and is exactly like when be bought the house, neighbours have never said a word about it! The wood has gotten quite rotten so we are looking to replace the fence panels (concrete posts all ok so they are staying, so just new gravel boards and wooden fence panels) so my husband went round yesterday to say the fence was being done in a few weeks. The neighbours have come back with they won't allow us to do the fence as its on their land, they want the fence moving into the middle of the properties (currently they have a slightly smaller gate and access than we do).
We were so taken aback, we said well this is how it was when we bought it so thats how its staying which they are not happy with at all and as stated above said they won't allow it to be done as its on their land. I said if this fence has been in since the houses were built in 2006 then they should have done something about it then, not 17years later they gave some story about they did speak to the people that lived here before but they were all new neighbours and had paid £1500 for a fence with concrete posts and had 2 young children so didn't want to cause trouble and just left it. I said well if the fence was put in wrong it wouldn't be the customer paying for it it would have been the fence company! Since the conversation I've been and looked and measured at the other side of our property and we have a smaller gate and access than our other neighbours do so maybe thats how its meant to be a slightly larger gate to right side and slightly smaller to left side.
I've looked on our deeds ect and they are so small and don't have exact measurements on so hard to tell however it does look like is goes down the middle but how can you tell inches on a document where the houses are about 3cm long!
Hope you are still with me, sorry for waffling on but suppose my question is, what would you do, are we in the wrong to say that fence has been there undisputed since we bought the house over 12 years ago so thats where its staying?

OP posts:
Intelligenthair · 26/11/2023 09:02

Do you need to access their land to change the panels?

Original poster
passmethebaileys · 26/11/2023 09:03

No i assume can all be done from our side, they're saying they won't allow us to do it as the whole fence is 6 inches on their land.

OP posts:
helpfulperson · 26/11/2023 09:06

What makes you think it's your fence not their fence? Does it specify that in the deeds?

WeeSleekitCowrinTimrousBeastie · 26/11/2023 09:11

Leave the current fence as is and put up a second fence alongside it.

Seeline · 26/11/2023 09:12

Were the houses built in 2006 as part of a new estate, or were they just 2 new houses?
If part of an estate then the fences would have been put in by the developer and I'm sure they would have been in the correct place. Is the developer still in existence? Perhaps ask them.
Although not exact proof, you could also look on the planning pages of the Council website. The approved drawings would show the plot boundaries. These don't always match the deeds though for ownership matters, but would be interesting to see where they are shown to be.

RudsyFarmer · 26/11/2023 09:13

Fence contractors are used to this I promise you. Forewarn them that you have difficult neighbours and to ignore them.

Write the neighbours a letter before work commences telling them the 17 year old fence will be replaced by a new fence due to safety concerns as the old one is rotten. Your contractors will be replacing like with like, following the historical fence line, any dispute would need to be dealt with civilly through solicitors.

They have absolutely no right to stop a contractor and honestly I’d be interested to see how they would try to. The police will not be interested unless there’s the risk of violence (you can show the dated letter very calmly if they appear). Are they planning on chaining themselves to a fence post perhaps? I’d want to be there alongside the contractor videoing if they kick off as the police may be interested in threats of violence if they start shouting and screaming.

Don’t be intimidated.

Original poster
passmethebaileys · 26/11/2023 09:14

Definitly our fence, they are in agreement of that

OP posts:
Original poster
passmethebaileys · 26/11/2023 09:16

We don't want to build another fence and leave that one as that would defeat the object, they want us to move our fence 6 inches so it would be in the middle of both houses so our main access will be narrower.

OP posts:
Original poster
passmethebaileys · 26/11/2023 09:19

Seeline · 26/11/2023 09:12

Were the houses built in 2006 as part of a new estate, or were they just 2 new houses?
If part of an estate then the fences would have been put in by the developer and I'm sure they would have been in the correct place. Is the developer still in existence? Perhaps ask them.
Although not exact proof, you could also look on the planning pages of the Council website. The approved drawings would show the plot boundaries. These don't always match the deeds though for ownership matters, but would be interesting to see where they are shown to be.

Yes quite a large ben bailey estate ours was the last street to be built in 2006, they are saying there was no fences there at all and they came home from work one day to this fence having been put in. Said they 'disputed' it at the time but didn't want to fall out with brand new neighbours when they had both just moves in so they just left it.

OP posts:
Santaiswashinghissleigh · 26/11/2023 09:21

Just replace the fence from your side....

Original poster
passmethebaileys · 26/11/2023 09:23

RudsyFarmer · 26/11/2023 09:13

Fence contractors are used to this I promise you. Forewarn them that you have difficult neighbours and to ignore them.

Write the neighbours a letter before work commences telling them the 17 year old fence will be replaced by a new fence due to safety concerns as the old one is rotten. Your contractors will be replacing like with like, following the historical fence line, any dispute would need to be dealt with civilly through solicitors.

They have absolutely no right to stop a contractor and honestly I’d be interested to see how they would try to. The police will not be interested unless there’s the risk of violence (you can show the dated letter very calmly if they appear). Are they planning on chaining themselves to a fence post perhaps? I’d want to be there alongside the contractor videoing if they kick off as the police may be interested in threats of violence if they start shouting and screaming.

Don’t be intimidated.

Thanks so much for this, my feelings exactly. There was a mention of solicitors (by us) during the conversation with them yesterday but they were just saying do we really wamt to go that far for the sake of 6 inches and don't we want it to be 'fair' and in the middle.
My husband afterwards was more leaning towards is it worth the animosity moving forward by sticking to our guns but we aren't friends with them literally only see them a few times a week to say morning to so it doesn't really bother me. They were definitely trying to intimidate.

OP posts:
NotObligedToArgueWithStrangers · 26/11/2023 09:27

Ask them to prove that the fence is on their land. If you can't tell from looking at your deeds, how are they so sure? I'd say the work is going ahead as planned on whatever date and they have until then to dispute it via a solicitor.

savoycabbage · 26/11/2023 09:30

I don't understand the narrower gate and the narrower access.

I have had a neighbour dispute and what I would say is don't underestimate how traumatic it can be. You say you only see them a few times a week in passing which is the same as me but on those few times a week they were screaming abuse and spitting on us.

Like you, everything had been completely normal prior to that. The problem with these matters is that you can't reason with people who are thinking in this way.

I'm not saying be intimidated by them or don't replace the fence, but just be cautious. It's hard to predict what will happen when people are irrational.

AnythingForYou · 26/11/2023 09:33

They should have taken this up with the developer when they moved in or actually before they moved in. Ridiculous to leave it this amount of time and then want it moved. As they are reluctant to use solicitors use this to your advantage and do what Rudy says, write to them, tell them the fence will be replaced along the historic fence line, make sure you add how long that fence has been there and how a they have lived there and how long you have lived there and that this is the first time they have mentioned anything about the position of the fence.

That way if they take that to a solicitor they can see it all laid out.

As for title plans scaling wise a line on a plan at the teeny scale that the solicitor supplies can mean a meter width on the ground. Yes the gates are unequal but they have been using that access since 2006 without any complaint to you since you moved in. This is all to your advantage. You bought the house with the fence in that position so you will be replacing it in that position.

This comes down to who has enough guts to go for what they want. I have had a previous boundary/fence dispute. It is a civil matter, not a police matter so even if they called the police they won't deal with it.

Today, go outside take lots of photos and videos of how the fence looks now, the position, the uneven width of the gates just in case going forward you need to prove where the old fence was. And good luck. Just heads up the installer.

RudsyFarmer · 26/11/2023 09:35

I honestly wouldn’t entertain it. As you said they had since 2006 to dispute the fence line. You’ll be in a weakened position if you actually move it to appease them. Stick to the historical line and let them pay a solicitor to write you a letter which I would advise you also ignore. Let them spend out on experts to try and claim 6 inches of land from you. People have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds doing so.

ignore. Ignore. Ignore.

AnythingForYou · 26/11/2023 09:37

@savoycabbage our neighbour was an unstable alcoholic which we only discovered after the dispute tipped them over the edge. They also shouted abuse but these days with Ring doorbells etc and cameras on phones it makes it far easier to report that behaviour to the police. Not everyone is a complete lunatic, most just ignore you afterwards rather than escalating.

Milknosugarta · 26/11/2023 09:40

What Rudsy said, exactly. 👆

fyn · 26/11/2023 09:47

The RICS have a boundary dispute hotline, they will put you in touch with a local surveyor who can provide 30 minutes free advice - https://www.ricsfirms.com/media/1229/rics-consumer-guide-boundary-disputes-2018.pdf

https://www.ricsfirms.com/media/1229/rics-consumer-guide-boundary-disputes-2018.pdf

savoycabbage · 26/11/2023 09:52

I know not everyone is a complete lunatic. The police didn't help us at all. Which made it all worse really. All I'm saying is tread carefully with neighbours.

SD1978 · 26/11/2023 10:05

If the fence is not on the boundary, but is in fact in their garden, and you don't want to move it, you don't have the right to change it, surely if it is on their land and can be proved to be so. I'd not be assuming that you can go ahead with it, just because they've never complained before. If they are saying that they want a boundary fence, or not giving permission, that's it surely? Are you asking for/ getting half of the cost from them?

Original poster
passmethebaileys · 26/11/2023 10:23

fyn · 26/11/2023 09:47

The RICS have a boundary dispute hotline, they will put you in touch with a local surveyor who can provide 30 minutes free advice - https://www.ricsfirms.com/media/1229/rics-consumer-guide-boundary-disputes-2018.pdf

This is super helpful thank you

OP posts:
Original poster
passmethebaileys · 26/11/2023 10:26

SD1978 · 26/11/2023 10:05

If the fence is not on the boundary, but is in fact in their garden, and you don't want to move it, you don't have the right to change it, surely if it is on their land and can be proved to be so. I'd not be assuming that you can go ahead with it, just because they've never complained before. If they are saying that they want a boundary fence, or not giving permission, that's it surely? Are you asking for/ getting half of the cost from them?

How do we know where the boundary is though as there are no measurements on the title deeds, the fence has been there since 2006 so to me I would say that's the boundary line? They just want it to be 'fair' and in the middle

OP posts:
Fraaahnces · 26/11/2023 10:27

Definitely get a surveyor in. Sounds like they’re colonizing your property.

Seeline · 26/11/2023 10:57

I find it hard to believe that both original owners moved in without any boundary fence or gates stopping access to the rear of the properties.
If the gates are not of equal size, I am guessing that they are the original gates - your neighbours wouldn't have removed a bigger gate and replaced it with a smaller one if they thought the fence was on their land at that point. And the original owners of your property couldn't have installed a wider gate/access if your neighbours already had a bigger gate in place.