New tenant woes

[Wintom]

We rent out a one bed flat and have it managed through a letting agent. Our last tenants moved out as they split up and went back to family. They kept the place immaculate (as seen in photos sent from the letting agent after inspections).

A new tenant, a single profession man moved in in August. The letting agent sent us the first inspection photos yesterday. The place is a tip. Every room's condition is 'Messy but clean' and it was noted that the tenant was present during the inspection. I have no idea how it can be clean as you can not see the carpet, never mind put a hoover round. The kitchen had dirty pots over every surface. It was in a shocking state.

We understand we can't control how our tenant chooses to live. What can we do, refuse to renew their 1 year contract? Get in touch with the letting agent about how messy the flat is?

It's none of your business how your tenant lives as long as he doesn't damage your stuff, you've no genuine business inspecting it 3 months after he moved in (he has a right to quiet enjoyment), and you're acting like you're his lord and master.

FGS he hasn't even had time to save up and buy furniture after crippling himself paying a deposit a few months ago!

We understand we can't control how our tenant chooses to live.
Clearly, you don't.

It doesn't matter how "messy" it is. What matters is whether he's damaging your property which it sounds as if he isn't. You need to chill out and let him live his life. I think an inspection after only 3 months is also out of order.

Not really answering your question but we moved into a property in April and have already had 2 inspections! It feels so intrusive and unnecessary. Sorry to vent on your thread OP.

Why on earth you're posting LL issues on MN I don't know? As a fellow LL I suggest you use Landlord Zone forum for queries to do with renting out property.

Landlord Zone

In my experience a messy tenant will mean they won't look after the property. I'd get rid of you can. And you'll get nothing from the deposit if they've trashed the house - I've been down that road and the Deposit protection scheme and the law all firmly sit in favour of the tenant.

If the agency has said 'clean but messy' it indicates that it's well clean but messy.

Damaging the property is your only concern, not where he leaves his clothes or how often he washes up.
You're right, you don't get to control how your tenant lives, just because it's not up to your standards, as long as it's not causing damage then it's really nothing for you to concern yourself about.

And if he does cause damage that can be proven to the deposit protection scheme then that's what the deposit is for.

And is it 3 monthly inspections? Because that's a bit OTT really.

Messy isn't a problem.

Damage is.

He is not your child. You don’t get to nag him to keep his room tidy.

Get over yourself.

You could choose not to renew the contract. You can't reasonably make an issue of it with the agent - and what would it achieve, anyway? If you're inspecting in November and the tenant moved in in August, I am guessing you intend for the agent to do quarterly inspections - and if the tenant suspects you are doing it to see how 'messy' he is, he may well decline to allow access for the remainder of his tenancy.

This is one reason why I'd never be a landlord. I couldn't stand to rent out my property to have it lived in by someone who just leaves shit everywhere to the point where the carpet isn't visible

I don't know how some of you live if you think this is fine

It's not that people think it's fine in the sense of approving of that as a lifestyle. It'd drive me absolutely nuts, personally. I wouldn't cohabit with someone like that - hell, I wouldn't cohabit with someone who left a dirty coffee cup on the table.

I also wouldn't live with someone who wanted to play the drums, or watch live sport every night, or engage in enthusiastic threesomes with Dave and Sharon down the road. That's just me.

But the point is, if you're a landlord, you're not entitled to take action on tenants who aren't damaging your property. You might find what they're doing really grim, or annoying. But if it's not harming your property, all you can really do is quietly decide to end the tenancy at the first available opportunity.

As a fellow fellow LL, I hope she gets blunt common sense talked into her on LLZ too. It's a website not an elite snooty club of nosey dickheads who fawn over each other (haven't you ever used it?). Making out she needs to confer only with a certain group of people just adds fuel to the fire on here.

Please don't assume people disagree with her because they hate landlords rather than because she's not showing herself as capable of running a rental business.

My landlord arranged a 3 monthly inspection for the first year and first two, the house was a pit, myself and kids had back to back illnesses and every time they came I did not have time to tidy everything away, loads of it was unpacked boxes too. Since thankfully they’ve seen it how we actually live which is clean to together, it’s hasty to get rid.

If you can't see the carpet and surfaces, how can it be "clean"?

Mess can conceal damage.

For those complain about inspections at 3 months, this is good LL practise! How can a LL be on top of repairs if the property is not inspected regularly?

But mess isn’t something you can control. I was a LL for a short while, and I think we just have to accept that rented property deteriorate faster. For example I wouldn’t repaint my house for 10-15 years, but in rented be prepared to repaint every 5.

If you’ve signed a year tenancy then there is nothing you can do other than wait it out and inform the tenant at the first opportunity that you will not be renewing the lease. Other than a few MN idiots, most people know that if you leave dirty dishes on kitchen counter tops the tops will stain and clothes all over the floor will stain carpets and encourage damp so be prepared for the fact that the deposit won’t cover it as things are very much in favour of the tenant. Anyhow, get them out and get a new tenant. If you have a nice property that is well maintained, you will rent it easily. Don’t allow any first time renters and get references from previous landlords. Most tenants are nice. Most tenants recognize the quid pro quo of taking care of the property and allowing quarterly inspections = landlord fixes things as fast as possible and keeps things as nice as possible. Treat it like a shit tip and start quoting “quiet enjoyment” (hiding the fact you treat it like a shit pit) = get asked to leave or if not, you’ve got a equally shit landlord so you deserve each other.

do you have any idea how you sound? I really think you ought to read back on what you wrote. You shouldn’t be a landlord if something as minor as this affects you. Theyre not damaging your property!! You’re basically finding a reason to indirectly evict someone and make them homeless.

I was an untidy tenant but still kept the place clean. When I moved out I left the place immaculate and I got my full deposit back. You can't refuse to renew a contract because of a bit of mess! Poor guy.

It is appalling LL practise! A good LL will respond to their tenant reporting repair issues, there is absolutely no need to inspect every three months (and then complain if it's a bit messy). I've lived in my current rental for over 18 years and have never had an inspection - nor have they redecorated. Our agreement is that the place is left habitable when we go, and in the meantime they respect our right to quiet enjoyment.

A good LL will respond to their tenant reporting repair issues

And if the tenant doesn't report issues? I've had this. And they refused inspections.

Should mortgage lenders insist on quarterly inspections of "bought" houses? They also have a significant interest in the condition of the property.

I’m afraid you are completely wrong there. A house doesn’t self maintain and relying on a tenant to let the LL know of problems is often a bit of a disaster. And now with newer legislations it is more and more the law that LL need to be proactive eg with damp, mould, minor repairs that can lead to bigger if left.

If you are a tenant and think it is ‘appalling’ for a LL to inspect and maintain a property so that you can live in a safe, healthy home - then you probably don’t have one clue about housing and repairs!

If part of the roof collapsed because you didn’t notice a leak or spot that the gutters were blocked - bet you wouldn’t be so happy then!

I’ve had this too. A tenant didn’t report damp. They also didn’t report a fence falling down. Or a conservatory roof getting a huge hole in it!

But when I did inspect, and did discover it. Suddenly they were saying that they had reported it… to cover themselves. And then were a gigantic pain the arse as they didn’t want anyone in to repair it, kept making excuses or telling me that I hadn’t given them notice (I had… they kept forgetting and I had to pay twice just for call outs from good builders who couldn’t gain access).

I’ll never be a LL again, but if I did I would be extremely wary of tenants who want ‘quiet enjoyment’. I’d never criticise mess, not my place at all. But it is my responsibility to ensure that the home that I provide is safe and well maintained.

I suffered through months of major works in my home this summer, installing an air source heat pump, solar panels, and insulation to a Georgian farmhouse, under ECO4 funding, saving my LL tens of thousands and improving the value (and future rentability) of their property. They still need to replace blown double glazing and a totally fucked door (external) to make the work actually worth the hassle. Don't tell me I don't know about housing and repairs, I'm not a teenager.

If you buy a house, it is 100% on you as the owner to repair and maintain it. If you get health problems from damp, no mortgage lender is going to be hauled into court because they didn’t inspect it.

If the roof falls in. You wouldn’t even contact the mortgage lender. You either fix it, or suffer!

They are money lenders. They may want a survey and insurance make sure they are on a good bet to lend money to you and get it back. That is their sole interest.

They are in no way responsible for you living in it. LL are responsible for making sure a tenant lives in a safe home and they can take you to court / report you if you do not.