Landlord opinion wanted re.major refurbishment

[VeryWorriedTenant]

Could any landlords, or tenants with similar experiences, give me their opinion or advice about what we're going through right now?

After years of very cheap rent, but hardly any repairs, landlord now wants to totally gut the place. It's a very old house, should really be listed, and he wants to replace all the windows and doors, new kitchen, re-plaster bedrooms, you name it. Trouble is, it needs an asbestos refurbishment survey which our research suggests is not possible with extant tenants. And then the asbestos will have to be removed to do the windows. But he and the agents are refusing to listen to our worries about quiet enjoyment and loss of amenity and are calling us obstructive and difficult. Are we being unreasonable to think this is far more than a tenant should have to put up with? Is this not the sort of work you'd do between tenants?

We're in Scotland, so we have the protection of the Tier 1 tribunal system, and the current cap on rent increases. It seems to us that they are trying to drive us out as they can't currently evict or put the rent up to the level these refurbishments would be appropriate for. We have seen some worrying things said in the agents reports about discussions needed about "market rent", and as they can't increase it to that level with us still living there it seems they are trying to make us leave.

It's been desperately worrying, and it doesn't feel like our home anymore.

If there was a genuine interest in his buildings very strange or an amazing coincidence that now after 10 years OP is try to list it
if they were that passionate about it how come it wasn’t a priority s as d done 10 years ago

It seems as though you’ve put up with the privations of a damp house and little or no maintenance for the past ten years, in exchange for a very low rent. I wonder whether you could have saved some money during that time, to act as a deposit for a place of your own. However, that’s not what you’ve done, so, faced with the current situation, I’d look for another place to rent, if you can’t buy.

I would imagine that the landlord, whether he’s rich or not, would prefer to have an asset that is useful to him, which this clearly isn’t at the moment. It’s not unreasonable to want to improve the property and it’s not unreasonable to want the market rate for rent.

I suppose you could hang on and obstruct attempts to prevent any renovations taking place, but would that not just encourage the landlord to evict you?

Perhaps, but if it was so special she surely wouldn’t have been the first to notice.

I’m not saying it’s out of spite either, but if I was her landlord I would be absolutely furious. And also wondering how on earth I was going to recoup the extra costs of refurbishment that that will entail when she’s on a low rent. I certainly wouldn’t be thinking that she was a good tenant that I needed to stand by.

From a practical perspective it's so much cheaper and easier to deal with multiple issues on a house at the same time. Often they lead to a kind of domino effect. Repairs only can be poor value for money - eg when similar labour time is needed to replace something as to do complex patches that won't last as long.

I would speak with Shelter Scotland. I'm not sure if major refurbishment can let them terminate your rent in Scotland. I know they're not supposed to evict you without reason, but I heard landlords are being creative and pretending to move in etc to get people out and increase rents. I think you need some proper advice, not randoms commenting about stuff they're not familiar with.

OP asked for opinion and advice and you did just state one

I know they're not supposed to evict you without reason,

But yeah the rest of us are randoms. Sure

You've complained that your landlord has not done repair work on the house. And now you're complaining that he wants to do repair work on the house.

I don't think you can have both.

I think that someone asking Historic Scotland to list a building can ask for their name and address to be kept private.

Looking at this from a heritage perspective, it would be a shame if the building lost its special characteristic features if it was altered unsympathetically. For example, tanking is usually harmful and can be risky if damp is trapped and out of view. It is very rarely needed and only in basements. The causes of the damp are not set out here, but maintenance is essential eg unblocking rainwater goods and not pointing with cement rich mortar, as two examples.

Everyone knows this. The question is the agenda and timing of OP requesting for the listing.

Your best bet would be to talk to Shelter Scotland, they will be able to give you advice.

@Myfabby jeesh some people like to be offended. I count myself as a random too so that's why I said to get proper advice.

Landlord here. We always undertake improvements either in between tenants and have had properties empty for several months as a result or if we’re just replacing a kitchen or bathroom we liaise with tenants to do the work while they’re on holiday.

I'm not responding individually to the spiteful and unnecessary commentary on my tenancy and relationship with my landlord.

The house should be listed, it is of significant local historical importance. It wasn't an issue before because there was never any intention to replace the beautiful Georgian windows with plastic units before. This house used to be respected and sensitive refurbishments were done, but the younger family member who has taken over the running of the estate doesn't feel the same about history. The landlord doesn't even know yet, we took this action as everyone who has ever come here has admired this house and its windows and said it should be listed due to its history. Heritage belongs to everyone, not just multimillionaire toffs with vast country estates.
The windows are not contributing to the damp, it is the roof we have been complaining about.

Imagine being so bored that you have time to come on here and character assassinate someone you've never met, and come up with fantasy situations about my tenancy and motivations.

All I was asking was whether any decent landlord would put a longstanding tenant through such hell.

The thing is OP is forcing the damp repair work through a tribunal and that would almost certainly necessitate moving out for a period anyway, particularly due to the asbestos issue. And as a PP said it makes sense to do all repairs at once - not long ago myself and the upstairs flat owner had to do damp work throughout the building and we took the opportunity while the scaffolding was up to then do other necessary repairs, as the scaffolding is a major cost.

There does seem to be a slight tension here between OP wanting major repairs but also not wanting to deal them actually being done.

LOL

You've got a real bee in your bonnet about millionaires. Happy to live in his grand house with fetching windows with subsidized rent, but suddenly principled and custodian of the heritage now he wants to kick you out.

It sounds like he/they can afford the changes despite your reports.

Good luck with finding a new home and sympathetic landlord.

All I was asking was whether any decent landlord would put a longstanding tenant through such hell.

So you just want people to say ‘bad, nasty LL’?
-doing repairs that you’ve asked for, but going to tribunal over
-still charging under market rent despite this
And they’re the bad guy cos they’ve more money than you?

You asked for landlord opinions about the situation OP, and this aspect of your situation doesn’t exist in a vacuum. People have taken the time to give that to you, they are commenting purely on the basis of the facts you’ve provided. How incredibly rude of you now that you haven’t got the answer you want (which was clearly that a decent landlord wouldn’t and you are in the right).

i don’t know how you know quite so much about your landlord but you’re clearly happy for that backstory to influence people’s opinions.

Good luck with your situation.

Waiting for the ‘my CF tenants had a decade of under market rent, asked for repairs then tried to get my house listed’ post

If a historic building with beautiful windows and other historic features is listable, then it should be listed, pure and simple. I'm afraid that is not a matter of motives. There is a risk that the building is now facing gutting out and destruction of much of its its heritage significance. That's why it needs to be safeguarded.

The LL should have kept on top of the roof maintenance, to prevent the damage. Be that as it may, there is a risk of a sledgehammer approach. We are not making any more historic buildings.

Have you posted about this before? I'm sure i read a really similar post about someone living in cheap housing on an estate and a younger relative taking over.

If they really are Georgian windows they likely won't be double glazed and will not be helping with general dampness. New windows can be tasteful and in keeping.

But I think the windows are a red herring to your real question. Would a landlord put a good long-standing tennant through this, well yes, especially as there's clearly issues that need fixing. Sorting damp and roof works are massive jobs you would have been massively disrupted and neeeded to move out either way 🤷🏻‍♀️

I have been through similar. We had to leave and move in with the in laws 30 minutes drive away which was a nightmare with the school run. We had delays of 18 months while we were waiting for the building work to start. We were told that they were going to take up the floor, replace some walls and put in new carpets and it would take about 2 months. The landlord kept adding more jobs after the work had started so it ended up taking 7 months.

Under Scots law,if the landlord plans to carry out major refurbishment and it is either impossible for you to live in the house OR you have said you don't want to stay while the works are carried out - that gives the landlord grounds to evict you on two months notice. As with any other eviction, landlord has to get a court order for this and it's up to the court whether it agrees or not.

It looks as if you have walked right into getting yourself evicted. Court action will cost the landlord and could traipse on and on. I suggest you take legal advice.

I'd speak to environmental health or the local council about asbestos/removal/living there when works are done etc.

With 10yrs of savings from the cheap rent, why don't you offer to buy the house off the LL, get it listed, and then YOU pay for the repairs???

Are you able & willing to pay market rent for the property?

If so, can you move somewhere while the work is happening? If there is nowhere available, ask the landlord if they can provide alternative accommodation during the works.

Unfortunately it does sound as though the relationship is somewhat sour. If not, they should work with you. Landlords will always eventually want market rent though & houses that are deteriorating need to be fixed

"It looks as if you have walked right into getting yourself evicted. Court action will cost the landlord and could traipse on and on. I suggest you take legal advice."

I have to agree, I think your days of peaceful enjoyment of this property are coming to an end. Regardless of "who started the problem" you will likley not be living there in the near future. Take proper legal advice and listen to what your told.