Buying a fixer upper... realistic or not?

[housechoicechoices]

After a very long house hunt which has been documented on here before, we have found a house that isn't perfect but is probably as close as we will get in our budget. It's a Victorian terrace-style semi (one of the narrow ones with the two storey extension out back, the type usually built in towns, with a proper staircase and high ceilings, not the country ones which have the L-shaped second bedroom to accommodate the stairs). It's in really good condition overall, decent garden too, but the layout doesn't work for us.

Originally when it was built it would have been a 3 bedroom house, but at some point previous owners put the bathroom in the 3rd bedroom (which means the bathroom is currently bigger than bedroom 2). We would want to remove this and relocate it downstairs to get 3 bedrooms. Has anyone ever done this and what are the potential pitfalls? There's already a toilet and sink downstairs and we could extend that room into a proper bathroom, but it looks like it used to be a coal shed attached to the kitchen, and it only has outdoor access currently.

We also need to soundproof the party wall as when we arrived we were treated to a very loud concert by next door's barking dog chorus (at least 5 dogs, I'd wager) which means they'll hear us excessively, too. No idea what we can do about that.

It's on for 325 but I'm thinking of going in with 305. It's probate and been on for 8 months, so unlikely anyone's house move depends on this one selling well. Is this a reasonable offer?

Our only other option now is a shared ownership newbuild, and it's over-valued by the developer so the mortgage + rent on it will come to more than the mortgage on the more expensive property that we'd be buying 100% of.

WWYD?

Soundproofing is rarely 100% and can be expensive. No way would I buy a house with noisy neighbours/animals. Have you viewed it on a weekend evening to see if they play music etc?

I drive past it morning and night on the way to/from work and I've never seen/heard any issues. Bit tricky for us to go out late at night on a weekend as we have very young children but you're right, we should try on the offchance there's an issue. I know absolute soundproofing is impossible without suspending a room in a vacuum.

Downstairs bathrooms (if the only one in the house) tend not to be very popular with buyers, so if you intended moving again then I wouldn’t do that. Also, going downstairs at night to go to the toilet will get very tiresome. Is there any way you can keep a smaller upstairs bathroom? And have a shower room downstairs?

Bur I agree that a conventionally owned house would be preferable to shared ownership.

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I know this is nothing to do with what you've asked, but if your children are very young, couldn't they share the second bedroom, so you wouldn't need to move the bathroom? A downstairs would put off a lot of buyers when you came to sell. But maybe having three bedrooms would offset that?

Could you get a third bedroom in the loft rather than moving the bathroom downstairs? Also, has it been priced at £325k for the past eight months? If so, it might be worth going in with a lower opening offer.

I wouldn't move the bathroom downstairs. Can the kids share, or can you extend into loft? And I wouldn't buy if there were 5 dogs next door, but I'm not a dog person.

Agree with other posters, going downstairs to the toilet at night will be very tiresome. I'd look at adding a third bedroom as a loft conversion. In saying that, however, the noisy neighbours would mean I'd want to keep looking.

Agree with the other posters about not moving the bathroom downstairs, I lived with one for over a year in a rental and it was awful (although I had to go through the kitchen to get to the bathroom) bloody freezing too, also hating trapsing up and downstairs to get dressed in my bedroom after a shower. If you do ever intend to sell again many would discount a house with a downstairs bathroom.

If the loft's an option for making a third bedroom please consider that, if the bathrooms massive maybe some of that space could be sacrificed for the stairs?

Lots of people don’t like downstairs bathrooms, couldn’t you go up one and get a large bathroom en suite and a still do the ground floor bathroom turning it into 3 bed, 3 bath?

if it’s been on for 8 months and we’re heading into Xmas it’s totally overpriced.

and the dogs are gonna be a constant pin in the arse. You’d need to completely line the party wall. Is the staircase on the party wall of the other wall…?

Doesn’t feel worth anywhere near the asking. I’d hold back and see what comes on the market next year. Usually get more probate sales after winter.

Ok to answer people's questions. Bedroom 2 is six feet wide with a fireplace. You wouldn't get 2 beds in side by side. We have a one (almost 2) and 4 year old so they can't share in bunk beds and by the time they're old enough for bunk beds they can't share as they're a boy and a girl. If the children sharing was an option we would do that but 2 bed houses with a large second bedroom are rare and about £50-75k more expensive. 3 beds are more common but about £100k more expensive.

Until we can get the third bedroom sorted, DH and I will be crammed into the tiny room and the kids will be in the master bedroom which is not ideal as we won't be able to fit our clothes or belongings in with us. We want them to be not sharing asap as we are currently crammed into an even smaller rented 2 bed (about 60% of the size of this house we're looking at buying). The one we're in now doesn't have enough room for us to move DD out of her cot into a bed and she's ready to move. The one we're in is 50m2 and we're looking at a 70m2 house to buy.

We do plan to open up the loft into another bedroom (ideally ensuite) at some point in the future as the staircase is in a good position to do that, but if we had the £40k+ we will need to do this properly, we would buy a better house. Unfortunately all our money is going into the deposit as 2 years ago, when we first started looking at moving here, interest rates meant we could borrow significantly more and house prices were lower.

We seem to be in one of the only areas of the UK where house prices are still rising so we're absolutely shafted. We did look at a couple of bigger towns but it just won't work for many reasons.

I don't know if the shared ownership one would just work out better but the monthly payments will be awful as the rent portion is totally ridiculous and I worry about resale.

Will post the floorplan in case anyone has any bright ideas.

(note on floor plan, they've measured the bathroom differently to the other estate agent who has measured it at 3.76x2.44m which, having viewed, is the accurate size but the other agent missed off the downstairs loo which I think is pertinent)

I don’t agree with this bit “We have a one (almost 2) and 4 year old so they can't share in bunk beds and by the time they're old enough for bunk beds they can't share as they're a boy and a girl.”

I would think they would be fine sharing till puberty, from a boy/girl point of view. They may piss each other off before then, of course, but don’t discount sharing if it works in other ways.

And if you had a sliding door then would two single beds fit.

Could one of you go at a time?

But I think if you can’t afford the £40k loft conversion, then you can’t afford to move the bathroom and do the sound proofing.

My youngest two (boy and girl) shared until the were 9 and 10. They also had bunks from about 2 and 3, the 3 year old was very capable of getting himself in and out. I would be putting them in the small room and saving money to do loft conversion. Moving a bathroom and soundproofing isn't a great option and won't be cheap. Save and do loft a bit at a time if you can.

The party walls in victorian terraces tend to be only one brick thick and I'm not sure if you could sound proof them effectively. I had one and you could even hear the neighbour pulling the shower curtain across in his bathroom. If 5 barking dogs lived there it would have been miserable.

There’s no reason the kids can’t share at two and four, or even at seven and nine!

Your children could absolutely go in bunk beds now. Put the youngest on the bottom - they'll be fine.
Don't move the bathroom - it'll be expensive and unsatisfactory - where would you put it downstairs? And as Pp have pointed out, you'll be spending a lot of money to make your house unpopular when you sell it. Everyone hates downstairs bathrooms.
The kids can share for at least another 5 years. By that time you should be able to afford the loft conversion or be ready move to a 3 bed.

I'd be concerned about the dogs - soundproofing usually doesn't work all that well.

Why can't you fit two single beds in the second bedroom? Hang the door the other way, then one bed along left hand wall on the floor plan, the other along the bottom wall under the window. If it's tight then a shorty bed and a cot bed for a couple of years till you can do the loft.

Do NOT move the bathroom downstairs - you'll lose loads in value.

Sound proofing super expensive and prob that good. Plasterboard wall to create a hallway though will keep noise from your living and dining room, and dc's bedroom.

I'm not an expert but I would prefer two bedrooms and an upstairs bathroom than 3 and only a downstairs one. Can you put a third bedroom into the loft?

Just a note on shared ownership as I’ve had several friends buy these and experience issues. You will be 100% responsible for all costs and maintenance, whatever percentage you actually own. The rent and service charge go up annually. They are usually leasehold rather than freehold. The mortgage rates offered on them are usually higher. When selling, the housing association or whatever organisation owns the proportion you don’t, can insist you market through them for the first couple of months, and for one friend of mine that meant paying a 50% higher selling fee than the normal estate agent would have charged, even though the association didn’t do any if the photos, viewings, or advertising beyond including her photos and description in the ‘for sale’ section of their website (and possibly on Rightmove)

If the options are shared ownership or this one, then if course this one! BUT - there must be an Option 3 of similar house without the barking dogs & inconsiderate neighbours. Even if not now, wait a few months.

But., if you have to buy this one, absolutely do not move the bathroom - youd need to change a supporting wall, add a window, buy a new bathroom, tiles, upheaval... Thatll cost you lots to do properly. I dont mind a downstairs bathroom, and given you've a 4-year-old you're statistically under the age where nightime bladders and joint stiffness is an issue...
Personally, Id move into the teensy bedroom, and have kids shaing bigger room, with a view to loft conversion or moving again in 6 years time.

But I think if you can’t afford the £40k loft conversion, then you can’t afford to move the bathroom and do the sound proofing.

This. We bought an old Victorian house during lockdown. It’s gorgeous but needs work. Most of the things we want to do haven’t been done yet as costs have skyrocketed and labour is in short demand.

I don’t think you can afford to do what you want to do right now, so it’d be deciding if you can make the current layout work for say three years - and I think the answer to that is no?

I’d agree with @Saz12 - I would not recommend spending extra money to create a downstairs bathroom - it’s a lot of work to create a house with what many would consider a disadvantage regarding floor plan.

Also agree that kids can share a room till puberty, and they may well prefer to in many ways.

An alternative way to create an extra space could be to create a hallway when you enter with a third bedroom downstairs, then use the dining room as a sitting room with a small table in the kitchen. Instead of a loft conversion would a side return infill work instead in a few years, giving you more living/dining space. Just thoughts, may not appeal. AND I’d concur - be wary of moving in somewhere you’re already aware could be problematic re neighbours.

You would need to soundproof the adjoining walls on both floors and the loft if you plan to convert it. Sound proofing will make the rooms smaller.

Could you remove the chimney breast in bedroom 2 to make the room bigger?

Those dogs are going to go out in the garden (and bark their heads off) possibly multiple times of day and late into the evening.