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Original poster

The current market is utterly depressing

105 replies

DrinkingLattes · 21/10/2023 11:19

Does anyone else feel the same way?

I'm a first time buyer and started house hunting around 4 months ago after my contract in work was made permanent. Deposit and AIP ready and solicitor lined up but there is absolutely nothing coming onto the market. I check right move every day and there are around 6-7 properties being listed but they are all flats or 4-5 bedroom houses. Where have all the starter homes gone? Is it just the time of year or the fact prices have fallen? I know people (myself included) were hoping that prices would come down due the mortgage rate rises but now it seems like people just don't want to sell... it's depressing Sad

OP posts:
CrashyTime · 26/10/2023 15:28

Yes the China bubble is truly something to behold, ours will pop hard but theirs is just mesmerising to watch.

KievLoverTwo · 26/10/2023 15:53

CrashyTime · 26/10/2023 15:28

Yes the China bubble is truly something to behold, ours will pop hard but theirs is just mesmerising to watch.

How does it become mesmerising watching a bunch of people lose a ton of money?

Or did you just not chose your wording carefully enough?

Twiglets1 · 26/10/2023 17:06

CrashyTime · 26/10/2023 15:28

Yes the China bubble is truly something to behold, ours will pop hard but theirs is just mesmerising to watch.

How disappointing for you that our own price correction will be less mesmerising

Jmaho · 26/10/2023 19:38

The thing is you won't get lower priced property at the same time as low interest rates. There are few winners

CrashyTime · 26/10/2023 19:41

KievLoverTwo · 26/10/2023 15:53

How does it become mesmerising watching a bunch of people lose a ton of money?

Or did you just not chose your wording carefully enough?

Show quote history

So you think they shouldn`t lose money when their frankly ridiculous bets on a Ponzi scheme go wrong? Do you think the Chinese government should just keep printing money to bail them all out? (remember that was tried in 2008 and is the reason we have this mess now)

CrashyTime · 26/10/2023 19:43

Jmaho · 26/10/2023 19:38

The thing is you won't get lower priced property at the same time as low interest rates. There are few winners

You don`t need super high rates to pop this bubble, it is popping now, you will have cheap property if mortgage rates hit 7% IMO.

KievLoverTwo · 26/10/2023 19:49

CrashyTime · 26/10/2023 19:41

So you think they shouldn`t lose money when their frankly ridiculous bets on a Ponzi scheme go wrong? Do you think the Chinese government should just keep printing money to bail them all out? (remember that was tried in 2008 and is the reason we have this mess now)

Show quote history

I think the language you use when discussing house prices is sometimes questionable. Mesmerising? Ponzi?

And no. I never want to see people lose their homes. As much as I would personally benefit greatly from house prices falls, I will never like the idea of people not being able to keep their chosen roof over their heads - not even those who have made ill advised financial decisions and stretched themselves.

Oyen · 26/10/2023 19:57

@CrashyTime I have seen you on a few threads now and you are deluded. You are clinging to this notion that because the market is rigged it must (how and with what motive?) correct itself. But it won't. We've been printing money for 15 years. Money doesn't mean the same now as it used to. Meanwhile asset holders are asset hoarding and they will always win.

You aren't going to get the results you want from posting on a talkboard. None of us are. Look at who already owns things. Just do what you can to make yourself comfortable.

Jmaho · 26/10/2023 19:58

CrashyTime · 26/10/2023 19:43

You don`t need super high rates to pop this bubble, it is popping now, you will have cheap property if mortgage rates hit 7% IMO.

Show quote history

Yes but it's not that big a win if you need a mortgage to buy. The price you pay is cheaper on paper but the mortgage payment is the same or even higher than it would have been a few years back. Good for cash buyers though

CrashyTime · 26/10/2023 19:59

KievLoverTwo · 26/10/2023 19:49

I think the language you use when discussing house prices is sometimes questionable. Mesmerising? Ponzi?

And no. I never want to see people lose their homes. As much as I would personally benefit greatly from house prices falls, I will never like the idea of people not being able to keep their chosen roof over their heads - not even those who have made ill advised financial decisions and stretched themselves.

Show quote history

Half the tower blocks Evergrande and Country Garden were throwing up are empty, investors were betting on the asset class always going up in value and the developers kept on selling even when they knew they were in trouble, that is classic Ponzi scheme IMO.

CrashyTime · 26/10/2023 20:02

Oyen · 26/10/2023 19:57

@CrashyTime I have seen you on a few threads now and you are deluded. You are clinging to this notion that because the market is rigged it must (how and with what motive?) correct itself. But it won't. We've been printing money for 15 years. Money doesn't mean the same now as it used to. Meanwhile asset holders are asset hoarding and they will always win.

You aren't going to get the results you want from posting on a talkboard. None of us are. Look at who already owns things. Just do what you can to make yourself comfortable.

"Money doesn't mean the same now as it used to."

It does, just ask anyone coming off a low fixed rate, why do you think mortgage applications just fell 40%?

KievLoverTwo · 26/10/2023 20:07

CrashyTime · 26/10/2023 19:59

Half the tower blocks Evergrande and Country Garden were throwing up are empty, investors were betting on the asset class always going up in value and the developers kept on selling even when they knew they were in trouble, that is classic Ponzi scheme IMO.

Show quote history

Oh. I thought you were referring to the entire market.

As you were then. That does sound dodgy.

Oyen · 26/10/2023 20:25

CrashyTime · 26/10/2023 20:02

"Money doesn't mean the same now as it used to."

It does, just ask anyone coming off a low fixed rate, why do you think mortgage applications just fell 40%?

Show quote history

It doesn't matter. The market is already sewn up.

Thing is you're right that it's rigged etc, but it's rigged more than you realise. It's rigged so that people who already have a stake can't fail.

This isn't about whether people in the UK can be owner occupiers or not, it's way bigger.

CrashyTime · 26/10/2023 20:36

Oyen · 26/10/2023 20:25

It doesn't matter. The market is already sewn up.

Thing is you're right that it's rigged etc, but it's rigged more than you realise. It's rigged so that people who already have a stake can't fail.

This isn't about whether people in the UK can be owner occupiers or not, it's way bigger.

Show quote history

"It's rigged so that people who already have a stake can't fail."

No, unfortunately the bigger your stake in a debt bubble, the bigger your fail, and that applies to big players as well because commercial property is getting absolutely hammered.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/oct/26/people-falling-behind-on-mortgage-repayments-interest-rates-arrears

‘Every night is sleepless’: the people falling behind on mortgage repayments

With interest rates still high and mortgage arrears at highest levels since 2016, we hear from three people struggling to pay

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/oct/26/people-falling-behind-on-mortgage-repayments-interest-rates-arrears

plumtreebroke · 26/10/2023 20:50

As a first time buyer ( a long time ago) I didn't want a lease, or a flat I wanted my own space with a garden. We had to pay a bit extra on already very high mortgages at the time. At that time we also had to move well out of our preferred area to find something we liked and could afford. Lots for sale around here now,

Edit: Our interest rate went up to 15% in the early days and we were absolutely broke!

Xenia · 26/10/2023 21:15

plumtree similar here for us in the 80s (and then and now had to live in outer London as inner far too expensive even then). Our rate even went up to 17% at one point albeit on lower values - we had borrowed 4x my salary not just on an interest only mortgage but a deferred interest one where some of the monthly interest was not paid until you sold so was added to the capital sum which meant the mortgage got bigger and bigger - only way we could afford our last house before this one bought in 1990. Quite high stakes and risky but paid off.

Twiglets1 · 26/10/2023 21:18

Xenia · 26/10/2023 21:15

plumtree similar here for us in the 80s (and then and now had to live in outer London as inner far too expensive even then). Our rate even went up to 17% at one point albeit on lower values - we had borrowed 4x my salary not just on an interest only mortgage but a deferred interest one where some of the monthly interest was not paid until you sold so was added to the capital sum which meant the mortgage got bigger and bigger - only way we could afford our last house before this one bought in 1990. Quite high stakes and risky but paid off.

You think you had it hard having to live in outer London?

I had to move to bloody Norfolk to afford a house! 😂

KievLoverTwo · 26/10/2023 21:25

Xenia · 26/10/2023 21:15

plumtree similar here for us in the 80s (and then and now had to live in outer London as inner far too expensive even then). Our rate even went up to 17% at one point albeit on lower values - we had borrowed 4x my salary not just on an interest only mortgage but a deferred interest one where some of the monthly interest was not paid until you sold so was added to the capital sum which meant the mortgage got bigger and bigger - only way we could afford our last house before this one bought in 1990. Quite high stakes and risky but paid off.

That sounds horrific and should never have been released to the mortgage market.

Jellybean85 · 26/10/2023 21:47

@CrashyTime But surely lots of people who own homes now aren't really in the "debt bubble" I thought it was only about 2/3 of the property owning 'class' as you call them (weird phrasing)

And not everyone is mortgaged to the hilt, dh and I have always been careful to under house ourselves according to our finances so have about 50/50 equity mortgage. The interest rate rises are a pain but won't cause much real
Hardship. Most people our age we know are similar (late thirties/early forties). This is going to hit first time buyers the worse, renters are shafted and those who maxed their borrowing in the last few years but I think most people will be fine through the price drop.

Twiglets1 · 26/10/2023 21:49

KievLoverTwo · 26/10/2023 21:25

That sounds horrific and should never have been released to the mortgage market.

Show quote history

Agreed.

Twiglets1 · 26/10/2023 21:52

Jellybean85 · 26/10/2023 21:47

@CrashyTime But surely lots of people who own homes now aren't really in the "debt bubble" I thought it was only about 2/3 of the property owning 'class' as you call them (weird phrasing)

And not everyone is mortgaged to the hilt, dh and I have always been careful to under house ourselves according to our finances so have about 50/50 equity mortgage. The interest rate rises are a pain but won't cause much real
Hardship. Most people our age we know are similar (late thirties/early forties). This is going to hit first time buyers the worse, renters are shafted and those who maxed their borrowing in the last few years but I think most people will be fine through the price drop.

I agree, FTBs with small deposits will be hit the worst and what have they done to deserve it @CrashyTime ?

KievLoverTwo · 26/10/2023 21:56

Jellybean85 · 26/10/2023 21:47

@CrashyTime But surely lots of people who own homes now aren't really in the "debt bubble" I thought it was only about 2/3 of the property owning 'class' as you call them (weird phrasing)

And not everyone is mortgaged to the hilt, dh and I have always been careful to under house ourselves according to our finances so have about 50/50 equity mortgage. The interest rate rises are a pain but won't cause much real
Hardship. Most people our age we know are similar (late thirties/early forties). This is going to hit first time buyers the worse, renters are shafted and those who maxed their borrowing in the last few years but I think most people will be fine through the price drop.

Idk. I think there will be retirees suffering after releasing equity to help their children.

The current market is utterly depressing
CrashyTime · 26/10/2023 22:10

Jellybean85 · 26/10/2023 21:47

@CrashyTime But surely lots of people who own homes now aren't really in the "debt bubble" I thought it was only about 2/3 of the property owning 'class' as you call them (weird phrasing)

And not everyone is mortgaged to the hilt, dh and I have always been careful to under house ourselves according to our finances so have about 50/50 equity mortgage. The interest rate rises are a pain but won't cause much real
Hardship. Most people our age we know are similar (late thirties/early forties). This is going to hit first time buyers the worse, renters are shafted and those who maxed their borrowing in the last few years but I think most people will be fine through the price drop.

Weird phrasing indeed, can you quote where I said that? The idea that renters are "shafted" seems to be a common one, not sure why, many landlords are in a similar position to you, or no mortgage or bought decades ago on the cheap, they won`t need to raise rents much if at all. Everybody who thinks their house is worth X is affected by the debt bubble, they are going to have to get used to the fact that it is now worth a lot less than they thought.

CrashyTime · 26/10/2023 22:16

Twiglets1 · 26/10/2023 21:52

I agree, FTBs with small deposits will be hit the worst and what have they done to deserve it @CrashyTime ?

Show quote history

How could a FTB be hit worse than someone with loads of existing mortgage debt? They will just continue living where they are, many of them will be at parents on the cheap, the people most hit after big mortgage debtors will be those who thought FTB were going to continue to borrow loads so they could get X amount for their house or their chain could complete, they are now looking down the barrel of a 40% drop in FTB mortgage applications.