Page 2 | Sellers don't want to admit that the market has changed!

FantaLemonade · 2023-10-16T15:45:54+00:00

I'm a ftb and have been house hunting for nearly a year. I'm taking my time and not rushing into anything as I want to find the right house within my budget etc, but I do check right move most days (has become a bit of an obsession tbh!) so I tend to remember certain properties. I've noticed a lot more sales falling through recently and properties being re advertised online. It doesn't surprise me with all the uncertainty, interests rate rises and affordability criteria changing. Anyway, this one made me laugh (pic attached). Obviously the seller is entitled to list and sell the property at whatever price they want, but what on earth are they thinking?!. The house was only taken off the market around 3 weeks ago after being on the market since end of March and having 2 reductions, which even in todays market is still a long time for the area. Clearly the sale has fallen through, but I have no idea why they think it would be a good idea to re-list and add on an extra 5k. It's not as if the market has improved in the last 3 weeks, is it?! Utterly bizarre I think. Is this just another example of sellers not wanting to admit that the market has changed?!

m00rfarm · 16/10/2023 19:27

CrashyTime · 16/10/2023 19:11

https://www.propertylog.net/ use this with RM

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Oh - so RightMove cannot do it without the add on. I honestly thought I was going crazy!

DrySherry · 16/10/2023 19:45

bellac11 · 16/10/2023 19:19

How much do you think a house like that in York should be?

250k is not expensive for a 2 bed house.

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The average salary in York is only 25k - so a house at £250k is ten times annual average salary ! Definitely too expensive.

PrimaryHeadteacher · 16/10/2023 19:48

The property that I am buying went to sealed bids- as did the one that DDs in-laws are selling- same area
Very market dependent

bellac11 · 16/10/2023 19:49

I thought most areas were about 10x the salary.

There are pockets of the country, north east, midlands etc where you can buy a house with 2 people on minimum wage.

PrimaryHeadteacher · 16/10/2023 19:52

That property in York is not overpriced

calmandcaffeinated · 16/10/2023 19:57

We noticed this in our area (expensive town in SE). It was infuriating as even the surrounding areas had dropped. Finally in the last 6 months we noticed extremely over priced properties dropping from £750k to £650k to £600k to then below that. Ridiculous. It's greed at that level I swear. Yet our 2 bed flat in the same area barely budged in value (up or down). At least we can move up the ladder now.

DrySherry · 16/10/2023 20:02

bellac11 · 16/10/2023 19:49

I thought most areas were about 10x the salary.

There are pockets of the country, north east, midlands etc where you can buy a house with 2 people on minimum wage.

Yes your right but that ratio was achieved as a result of more than a decade of ultra low borrowing costs. Now that interest rates are normalising the ratio will have to go back to 7 or 8 times. It just takes a while to filter through - probably another year or so.

Sparehair · 16/10/2023 20:50

KievLoverTwo · 16/10/2023 17:30

I think OP might have picked that up from Zoopla, but you can get the Property Log add on to the Chrome browser that shows you full price change history.

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thanks!

CrashyTime · 16/10/2023 21:13

PrimaryHeadteacher · 16/10/2023 19:52

That property in York is not overpriced

It is with interest rates returning to normal, it sold for about 60k in 2001, nothing much has changed about the house since then, and rates are back to about the same level with wages gone nowhere (and any wage rises eaten up by COL) Quarter a million quid to hear your neighbour through the wall in York, LOL, give me a break FFS!

Quisquam · 17/10/2023 00:29

Quarter a million quid to hear your neighbour through the wall in York, LOL, give me a break FFS!

Imo, that’s incredibly cheap! A two bedroom Victorian terrace like that, but with an upstairs bathroom, sold here for £520,000 in March 2023. We don’t live in London.

PerfectYear321 · 17/10/2023 00:51

Property prices have actually only kept up with inflation so I don't think they'll fall. It's wages that are so ridiculously low that property prices seem too high. Wages need to increase

loreau · 17/10/2023 00:57

You haven't managed to find a property in a year.
They haven't managed to sell their property for 8 months.
Maybe both of your expectations are unrealistic.

echt · 17/10/2023 03:29

Not the point of this thread but that York house is mind-bogglingly ugly, apart from the painted garden wall.

Twiglets1 · 17/10/2023 06:28

PrimaryHeadteacher · 16/10/2023 19:52

That property in York is not overpriced

I agree. Some of the decor is a bit questionable but that’s personal taste. It’s a good size for a city centre terraced house The road looks fine and its walking distance to York train station plus York is a lovely city. 240k seems good value given all that.

People don’t necessarily have to live in York to buy a house there either with many people working from home most of the time. My niece lives in Sheffield and works in London but only has to go in once a week.

happylittlesloth · 17/10/2023 06:30

Maybe they've found somewhere they want to move to and need the extra cash

Twiglets1 · 17/10/2023 06:38

I just looked on Righmove at Sold prices in York. It said the majority of sales over the last year have been terraced houses sold for an average price of over 343k.

York is plainly not a particularly cheap city. Which is not at all surprising given it is beautiful and has a very fast train to London.

It also said prices in York have risen 6% over the last year. Yes, the information is slightly out of date as it always is on Rightmove. It is currently showing sales up to August 23.

Alexalee · 17/10/2023 08:13

10 times the average wage as a guide is very out dated
Nearly all households need 2 incomes to buy these days, so a better metric would be a multiple of household income, which if both were on average wages would be 5 times
And you haven't even factored in the average deposit which is around 20%
So in reality the mortgage for that house on average wages would be 4 times household income, which is very affordable

bellac11 · 17/10/2023 08:20

echt · 17/10/2023 03:29

Not the point of this thread but that York house is mind-bogglingly ugly, apart from the painted garden wall.

I dont think its ugly but they have made a bit mistake by changing the window shape at the front, ruined the front of the house.

saveforthat · 17/10/2023 08:35

Quisquam · 17/10/2023 00:29

Quarter a million quid to hear your neighbour through the wall in York, LOL, give me a break FFS!

Imo, that’s incredibly cheap! A two bedroom Victorian terrace like that, but with an upstairs bathroom, sold here for £520,000 in March 2023. We don’t live in London.

I thought that was cheap for York too. There is nowhere around here you can get a 2 bed for under £250k and I don't live in London either (or anywhere near it.

Give0fecks · 17/10/2023 08:43

@Nottodaty thats exactly what’s happening to us. We are trying to upsize, but finding vendors of larger type houses who are usually of an older generation are just not budging or reducing price. Usually they are mortgage free and sitting on vast vast amounts of equity (property price in my area has increased by about 10 x the value in the last 15 years!!!!)

its soooo frustrating. We were happy to reduce our price but then couldnt afford to move on, so just took ours back off the market.

okthenwhat · 17/10/2023 10:02

The market where we are has shifted but not where we're moving to.

We've been realistic even though it stings because in cash terms we've spent more on the house than the difference between what we bought it for and what we sold it for - did up bathrooms, heating system, guttering, drive, front and back door and a couple of windows so key maintenance.

It stings but ultimately we want to move so what can you do?

BraveToaster · 17/10/2023 10:14

I think one of the biggest issues is that a lot of sellers, primarily those that have done most of their buying/selling in the last 15 years, don't realise that it isn't just the interest rates that have changed. Buyers' mindsets have as well.

For the last few decades many people have had the mindset of "the bank said I can borrow this much, so it's fine for me to spend that much". And although the amounts may have seemed eye watering at first, it was easy to get past that because prices were always increasing.

I've seen so many houses being reduced by paltry amounts. But with the risk of higher rates and/or negative equity, I really don't think many buyers today are thinking "oh, if only that house was £5k less, I would be able to just about manage it by taking about the max amount I've been offered."

These are the same sellers who are offering on houses without being proceedable. They feel so confident in the EA valuation that they are comfortable making an offer on another property, not even considering that their house might not sell for that amount.

The other factor is that the cost of a mortgage has gone up rapidly. Sure, over recent years as prices were rising you may have started saving for the deposit and by the time you were in a position to buy a few years later prices had gone up. But for current buyers their affordability was slashed in a matter of months. They might even be looking at the same houses that six months ago would have cost considerably less. It's very hard to convince someone that a house is "worth" 30% more (in mortgage costs) in such a short span of time.

DrySherry · 17/10/2023 10:58

They do seem to be falling in different areas at different rates. The Welsh are certainly getting it now. A 16% drop year on year during a year of high inflation is nothing short of a crash for the locals !! Its going to feed out to other areas just more slowly.

Denbighshire saw the highest drop at 15.9%.

JustKen · 17/10/2023 12:35

Five years ago I could have sold my place easily for £400k. Now I go on RM and similar properties are going for £325-350k. This is Zone 2/3 in SE London. My neighbour is trying to shift hers at £450k. It's been on the market for months. The bubble has burst!

CrashyTime · 17/10/2023 15:55

BraveToaster · 17/10/2023 10:14

I think one of the biggest issues is that a lot of sellers, primarily those that have done most of their buying/selling in the last 15 years, don't realise that it isn't just the interest rates that have changed. Buyers' mindsets have as well.

For the last few decades many people have had the mindset of "the bank said I can borrow this much, so it's fine for me to spend that much". And although the amounts may have seemed eye watering at first, it was easy to get past that because prices were always increasing.

I've seen so many houses being reduced by paltry amounts. But with the risk of higher rates and/or negative equity, I really don't think many buyers today are thinking "oh, if only that house was £5k less, I would be able to just about manage it by taking about the max amount I've been offered."

These are the same sellers who are offering on houses without being proceedable. They feel so confident in the EA valuation that they are comfortable making an offer on another property, not even considering that their house might not sell for that amount.

The other factor is that the cost of a mortgage has gone up rapidly. Sure, over recent years as prices were rising you may have started saving for the deposit and by the time you were in a position to buy a few years later prices had gone up. But for current buyers their affordability was slashed in a matter of months. They might even be looking at the same houses that six months ago would have cost considerably less. It's very hard to convince someone that a house is "worth" 30% more (in mortgage costs) in such a short span of time.

Yes, many people are waking up to the fact that the house increased in value because it was part of an asset class fuelled by cheap debt, nothing about the house has changed, there is a long road of price falls ahead for the average UK property.