Today I noticed two ways in which Rightmove is hiding price increases

[KievLoverTwo]

So, I thought I would share, for the purpose of possibly helping those currently house hunting. I can see these because I have the Property Log chrome extension (which I am in NO way affiliated with). I'm not gonna share the property URLs, it's not fair on the owners.

What RM currently says: Added on 08/09/2023
It was added on 12th September for 195k
16th October it was increased to 210k

So, Rightmove is saying it was added four days before property log thinks it was, and it doesn't show the price has increased.

What RM currently says: Reduced on 17/08/2023
It was added on 3rd August for 389k
It was reduced on 17th August to 375k
It was increased on 4th September to 400k

So, despite it being increased by 15k from it's lowest number to its current number more than a month ago, Rightmove is only showing it as having been reduced.

On a slightly different subject, but about the same company. I'd heard that RM now charge EA's basically the equivalent of a full time member of staff, but I couldn't quite believe it, til I came across this:

https://propertyindustryeye.com/rightmove-defends-17-fee-hikes-as-estate-agent-says-no-option-but-to-pay/

Article from June.

'White explained: “At a time when their clients are facing pressures in a much-reduced market, and with high general inflation of around 10% from their suppliers, estate agents on the core Essentials package, Rightmove’s standard package, are being hit with an almost 18% increase in annual fees, taking the basic package to £1,385 per month.'

and from Feb 2021

https://propertyindustryeye.com/rightmove-defends-latest-price-hikes/

'When a sales representative from Rightmove approached a well-established London agent this week and asked for a 10% increase in their yearly tariff, the agent was shocked at what she described as “the cheek” of this proposal.
But despite expressing her displeasure the agent, who has asked to remain unnamed, reluctantly agreed to pay the increased amount.

A spokesperson for Rightmove told EYE yesterday: “We can confirm that we’re having conversations with some agents where their contracts are due for renewal.'

I should probably add that I have heard through property podcasts that sometimes estate agents 'toggle' the houses prices without the owner's knowledge to get more feet through the door.

So, the vendor calls the EA and complains they're not getting enough viewings, the EA increases the price by 10k then on the same or next day decrease it by 10k, so folks who are unaware of such shennigans get the property through on their daily alerts again, saying the price of this house has been decreased, when in actual fact, it's more about the EA not wanting to have an honest conversation with the vendor about the pricing and/or that the EA overpriced it in order to get the business in the first place.

It will also appear at the top of search lists as 'most recently added' for people running new searches.

It’s all static or ‘price reduced’ in our area. I’m on multiple times a day and have been since November.
I’ve never seen one go on for an increased price without first being removed from sale, and then going back on with another agent, after first having a refresh/declutter and new photos taken.

Yep. It's the first time I've ever noticed this.

Maybe it's a new thing.

Apparently the chances of a house selling when it's re-listed by another agent drop by about half, or a third or something. Idk. That doesn't really make too much sense to me. Maybe people assume something horrible is wrong with it if vendors have to switch agent?

There's an ambitiously-priced house near me on the market on its third agent since last summer. Still at the same price as last summer (which was at least £10k too much then). It just makes me laugh when I go past and the board has changed.

Most people are in denial at the moment.

Yep, it has all happened really fast hasn`t it? PropertyLog is a great tool though, you can see the sentiment swings both ways as people try to increase the price and then as people realise they have to start cutting.

Definitely a denial phase on low volume at the moment. Happens in all markets at all timeframes - housing market is particularly illiquid with true price discovery set at the margins.

What is notable and interesting about the housing market against other financial markets (in which I work) is the amount of sentimentality attached to it. In this context greed gets amplified on the way up (last 20 year or so) and fear is absolutely fearful on the way down. Add that to a ridiculously archaic process of transacting and you have a slow moving debt laden tanker, gradually running aground.

Yes, one of the biggest mistakes people made is thinking of property as a "store of wealth", it is until it isnt, and you wont be able to sell fast enough to escape the losses.

Both houses either side of me are for sale. Similar 3 storey town houses. House A is slightly bigger and has a larger garden. House B is a bit more modern in its decor, new kitchen.

This type of house has a ceiling price of about £250k.I think one house did go for £260k a while ago but that was when things were still good.

House A went up for sale in August at £295k, reduced in September to £285k. Still for sale. These people are downsizing.

House B went up for sale 3 weeks ago at £245k, reduced last week by £10k and is now under offer. These people are upsizing.

I keep wondering how long House A are going to hold on for. They originally tried to sell it themselves at £300k.

As in all bubbles prices don’t collapse first, volumes do. Then, and only then do you get price discovery.

Basically the system has been artificially inflated for over a decade since 2009 with zero borrowing costs which has pushed up “apparent asset values” and the truth of the matter is probably very very nasty when the tide goes out which it has now done.

Its just gonna take a bit of time to hit the bottom line.

Yep, BBC2 programme tonight just laid it all out, it was basically HPC The Movie, Martin Lewis seemed genuinely angry at the bubble caused by all the cheap lending, quite scary how intense he was actually!

They've been doing it for years. I have reported it to RM and explained how they can detect it and penalise the EA's. Then, because they failed to do anything about it, I reported RM to the ASA. I cannot believe that they can advertise something as Reduced when it costs more than it did originally! ASA never replied.

I'd urge you to do the same but don't expect a result.

Loads of EA's are at it. Property Log will tell you if you are being taken for a mug.

Regulators in not regulating shocker! O_O

Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't. I thought property log was supposed to show you links to old adverts (if ak EA switch happens). Yesterday I saw a house we viewed in April in a completely fresh advert with no PL info so there was nothing to suggest it had ever been on the market before.

Was is though? Correct me if I am wrong, but that documentary gave no mention whatsoever to the falls that have been happening (and widely reported on) over the last year.

I feel that's irresponsible.

"Property Log will tell you if you are being taken for a mug."

Exactly, everybody should be using this app.

Well yes, the second half was just a load of people babbling about "lack of supply", just the usual rubbish that has lured the financially vulnerable into nonsense like HTB etc. and thinking their mortgage for a silly amount would always be cheap, no mention of sales down about 50% and mortgage applications down about 40% - But those people still live somewhere, a Primary School class could tell us that!

Property is one of those few areas where you often get complete amateurs dealing with relatively large sums of money.

Especially if they have come from relatively humble backgrounds but have been lucky enough to own property that has undergone vast price inflation.

There are always going to be people who think putting a few twigs in vases on the shelves, adding a feature wall and making the sofa red is going to make a 2 million house worth 3 million. And people who will knock £250 of a £1 million pound house because to them it is "a lot of money - that would buy you a car in the war".

A lot of people just don't understand concepts such as price discovery and chasing the market down. Which is why when the property market does go, it is a fear based stampede rather than rational actors repricing based on market value.

Yes, exactly.
Volume has collapsed so far and prices fallen a but but I also expect the fear phase at some point. Obviously, it won't just be restricted to housing.

RM ignore the agents' tricks because that is where they make their money.

RM ignore the agents' tricks because that is where they make their money.

See also: Etsy and Trustpilot.

On Monday I ordered something from Etsy for the first time in months. You can no longer sort by most positive review.

Tonight I looked up a broadband provider on Trustpilot, which has been my holy grail of ‘reviews cannot be easily bought’ versus google for years. Not only do I not get anything loading when I click on ‘show me 1 star reviews’ but you also can’t sort by positive or negative anymore.

These previously helpful websites are sharply moving away from being useful to the consumer to becoming nothing but corporate butt lickers.

Now, where can I get a Yellow Pages?

Currently searching for houses and thought of this thread when I’ve come across this property. Like WTF? Is the estate agent trying to generate interest do you think? It just seems a bizarre way to do it?

Sorry forgot photo

@Sunflowercanvas yes. Brings it to the top of 'newly listed' every time. Will also show as reduced.

It’s crazy, puts me right off a property.

Also look out in property log for agents who change the price of a listing when a sale is agreed to try and reduce the risk of mortgage down valuations. Great way to see what price things are going sold stc for.

Blimey, that's sneaky.