Grave on property?

[mindutopia]

I wanted to ask if anyone has any experience with or advice re: researching a grave on a property.

We purchased our house several years ago. We are in the process of applying for planning for a barn conversion. It’s a small farm with land, so a garden but also several fields and a bit of woodland. A comment has come back that the parish council is concerned about any building works because they are ‘aware of a grave on the property though there is no record of this.’ 😳

Now we’ve never heard of a grave being on the property, but it wouldn’t be that shocking as the farm has been here for 300 years, so would probably be more shocking that there wasn’t someone buried somewhere. But does anyone know where to start in terms of researching if there is one and where?

I would have assumed it’s something that would have come up in conveyancing (it didn’t) or would be on some previous plans or deeds and it doesn’t appear to be. Is there somewhere we could search for records of a private grave? Are these things meant to be recorded? If so, how and where?

The comment from the parish council almost read as if it was known to them because someone on the council remembered the grave being there (the previous owners, both still alive btw 😂, did live here 50 years and knew everyone in the village, so if they buried someone here, certainly everyone of that generation would know about it, it’s that sort of place). But I assumed if it was that recent, 1990 instead of, say, 1890, it would be recorded in some formal bureaucratic, maybe even online, way. Am I right?

We are mostly just curious and not actually bothered about a body buried here, though Dh has a love of good drainage so we are often digging trenches and putting in drains as very wet and muddy land, and well, probably best to know where they hid the body so we don’t dig in the wrong spot. 😬

I read an article a few years ago about a woman who drove her mothers body around in a camper van, a sort of farewell holiday, then buried her on their land. I’m sure she said it had to be okayed by the council. Maybe contact them and see if they have a record?

http://www.naturaldeath.org.uk/index.php?page=home-burial

Not quite the same but I have buried my horse on our farm. I plan on putting it in the deeds so she is not dug up by a future custodian of the land.

Email the parish council and ask?

Seems odd, as it would be un hallowed and indeed unlicensed land. Perhaps it’s a dog or some other pet?

Contact the Parish Council and ask the relevant people.

Ask the person that says they remember it. If they haven't got documents supporting it then it didn't happen!

As far as I know, but I am by no means certain of this, as long as you bury someone a certain minimum distance from any water course, and of course own the land freehold, then I believe that you are allowed to bury a human body in your garden.

So I don't know if anyone has to give permission before any human body can be buried on private land, but your local government should have a website that tells you all of the necessary conditions. If you do have to register any burial, and if that law/bylaw has been in place a long time, then hopefully your local council will have a record of any bodies, and there whereabouts on your land - but unfortunately it is a lot of "ifs"...

To a pp, it only needs to be hallowed ground if the deceased person wanted to be buried on consecrated land.

I suppose there would be less likely to be noisy neighbour complaints

Thanks, I'm trying to do it a bit on the down low. Obviously asking the parish council would be the obvious thing, but in terms of planning, we actually don't want to flag it up. The planning officer (who is not on the parish council) didn't seem bothered because there is no record. So I don't want to request the parish council to produce one - in case it then actually causes us planning issues. Maybe something after the planning is finished though. I was just hoping that there might be somewhere these things are recorded where I could search - a website (I'm assuming there isn't) or a council archive without having to leave an official trail.

The previous owners were a woman and her second husband. She originally bought the property with her first husband before they split up back in the 80s. Dh and I are a little bit side eying each other and hoping it's not husband #1 after meeting an untimely death. They didn't have horses, though did have sheep/cows (but the fallen stock man takes those away - I can't imagine anyone lovingly burying a favourite cow). They did have dogs, but I can't imagine pets buried on a property would ring any alarm bells to anyone. Surely, we all do that.

I did have a look last night through all the old land plans. We have them going back to the mid-1960s and nothing obvious marked on there.

I'm not 100% certain, but I think an archeological survey might be the way to go.

I am basing this on a woman who I follow on Instagram, who is converting an old church. There are many burials under the church itself and they've had an archeologist there to help re-site the bones etc and ensure minimal disruption during the building works.

I think you do need to know whether a body is buried on your land and if so, where.

If you or contractors should disinter human remains you would have to notify the police and there would have to be an investigation.

Probably best to know before planning any work so that you can avoid the spot.

Do you have a patio?

A farmer on a farm here was recently buried on his own land.

I’d ask a local elderly person about it in a casual way. Just to ascertain the roots of this gossip. Then take it from there.

You will have to mark out graves on the CPSE (commercial property standard enquiries) form you'll complete when you sell. You won't be able (unless you break up the land and sell in parts) to create a covenant saying that he must not be disturbed - well, not easily.

My dads cousin and his wife were both buried on their land, and though they had to be careful about water courses I don't believe that they had to have the location marked in any way or recorded. Certainly the grave was dug with one of Cousin x's favourite tractors for him (his wife died later and was less fond of the tractors so it wasn't mentioned during the funeral service which was also all at the farm).
I'd ask someone on the parish council for more details - sounds like the sort of thing that may be a rumour in the village, but people will love telling you the story

Not quite sure I understand the logic.

You say you don't want it to cause you planning issues, but let's say for example if it is actually in your way would you be happy in bulldozing or building on top of a grave ?

My guess is most people wouldn't (maybe you would). So in that case the only solution is to try to establish if it is and where it is with all information possible ?

To me "grave" could mean lots of different things. It could be that someone was buried there in living memory. Or it could mean someone accidentally churned up a few old bones ploughing a field with a tractor once ?

Get your planning first.
And before any building work begins ask locally about the grave.
With the planning "in principle" for an new build structure in place you can get a variation if by chance there is a grave site in the foundation area.

If you think about the situation of where you would bury a family member? would next to your barn be a good location?

The area with doors is normally used for access
Most people will not pick a spot which will be walked over every day (by human or animal) as that is "disrespectful" in UK culture (there is the fact that the grave will settle over time too).
Then what is the rest of the area? field or garden.
Again the builder/farmer would take account of what areas would be marked off in a logical prgression for new farm buildings.

I would be looking for a yew tree or rose bush in an unusual place or hedging which form a rough plot size.

It's not uncommon for farming families to have graves on their land. These are generally documented though (there's one near me which has just been sold and the barns are being developed but the grave is clearly marked), and aren't usually close to dwellings / barns, as others have said, look at a copse of trees, woodland or similar. I'd go ahead with the planning, the parish council may be invited to comment as an interested party as part of the planning process, and at that point they may shed more light.