Neighbours loft conversion next to ours

VintedoreBay · 2023-10-10T15:53:53+00:00

We had a loft conversion on our mid-terrace house a few years ago. Our immediate neighbours are now doing theirs. Their builders have (without our knowledge or consent) removed tiles from our loft extension walls exposing the structure of our building. Can their builders remove tiles from my property in this way without our consent? Is this common practice when building a loft extension next to an existing neighbouring one (but not adjoining)? We've looked but can't see any other local homes with two neighbouring loft conversions so can't ask or see how they were done for comparison sake either. Where do we stand?

SurelyNot22 · 10/10/2023 16:56

Pretty sure this is something to do with a party wall agreement, which I think has to be in place before work can start. Did your neighbours ask you to sign one?

fearfuloffluff · 10/10/2023 16:56

They should have a party wall agreement at the outset, do they have one?

And nothing would come off your property without your consent. Tiles off leaves you at risk of leaks.

Tell neighbours and get them to get it sorted.

HarpieDuJour · 10/10/2023 16:58

Are you sure that they were removed on purpose? They could have been accidentally damaged. Depending on the kind of tile or slate, and the quaility of the work when they were put on, damage can occur very easily.

Either way, you need to tell your neighbour and ask for the damage to be made good. If it isn't, then you might need legal advice, but this can probably be sorted out fairly easily.

Take pictures, see if you have any which show the roof beforehand (maybe even going back to the estate agent's listing photos if you can, depending on how long that is, obviously.

Original poster

VintedoreBay · 10/10/2023 17:11

Yes there is a PWA in place - they assured us our extensions wouldn't touch and there will be a gap, showed us their plans etc. We believed the PWA is because of our shared load bearing walls, of which our extension wall is neither load bearing or shared.

I have taken photos. The number of tiles removed from the back appears intentional and there doesn't look anything accidental about it.

I spoke to the neighbours and they said 'oh we didn't know'. Haven't heard anything from them since (last week).

They haven't asked us if they can remove anything - our extension is within our boundary, no overhang at all!

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Rollercoaster1920 · 10/10/2023 17:17

The builders are trespassing and have damaged your property. You need to get the builder's company details and insurance details now (before they can disappear). How far from the party line is your loft wall? I bet they are expecting to join onto your loft extension and 'weather proof' the gap. See the fun that can cause: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10785019/Neighbours-accuse-banker-trespassing-building-loft-conversion-close-1-5M-home.html

Couple accuse banker of building extension 'too close' to £1.5m home

Liz Peck and her singer husband Adam are locked in a court dispute with their neighbour Debbie Ranford after she built a roof extension at her flat in East Dulwich back in 2014.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10785019/Neighbours-accuse-banker-trespassing-building-loft-conversion-close-1-5M-home.html

ClematisBlue49 · 10/10/2023 17:24

I'd get in touch with the party wall surveyor asap. If there is damage as a result of the works, or the works are not being carried out in accordance with the PWA, the surveyor needs to ensure that it's corrected.

AndyPandyismyhero · 10/10/2023 17:25

I would go back to the party wall surveyors and get their advice. Our PWS is very good with advice and will sort out issues if our neighbours builders don't follow the agreement.

Original poster

VintedoreBay · 10/10/2023 17:44

Ok we may have been naive here - we didn't appoint a surveyor, they served us notice of the works under the Party Wall Act and we signed to consent only once we'd seen their plans and based on the structures not touching - is this not the same as a PWA? 🙈

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Original poster

VintedoreBay · 10/10/2023 17:45

Rollercoaster1920 · 10/10/2023 17:17

The builders are trespassing and have damaged your property. You need to get the builder's company details and insurance details now (before they can disappear). How far from the party line is your loft wall? I bet they are expecting to join onto your loft extension and 'weather proof' the gap. See the fun that can cause: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10785019/Neighbours-accuse-banker-trespassing-building-loft-conversion-close-1-5M-home.html

Oh gosh. Spouse now says they actually asked to 'felt over the roof gap' and our response was we'd seek advice and get back to them.

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ClematisBlue49 · 10/10/2023 17:58

VintedoreBay · 10/10/2023 17:44

Ok we may have been naive here - we didn't appoint a surveyor, they served us notice of the works under the Party Wall Act and we signed to consent only once we'd seen their plans and based on the structures not touching - is this not the same as a PWA? 🙈

No this isn't the same thing. If you sign the consent form then no PWA is drawn up. They are still liable for any damage, but you would need to establish that the damage was caused by them. Were pictures taken before the work started?

Rollercoaster1920 · 10/10/2023 18:26

Do you have legal advice with you building insurance?

Original poster

VintedoreBay · 10/10/2023 18:36

ClematisBlue49 · 10/10/2023 17:58

No this isn't the same thing. If you sign the consent form then no PWA is drawn up. They are still liable for any damage, but you would need to establish that the damage was caused by them. Were pictures taken before the work started?

Show quote history

Their builders were supposed to take them of different stages but we haven't seen any.

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SilkandSteel1 · 10/10/2023 18:42

Please be careful accessing the link above - I got a virus warning

ClematisBlue49 · 10/10/2023 18:55

Definitely get legal advice, and tell the neighbours you are doing so, and insist on receiving copies of the photos.

If you can't get free advice via your insurance, you might be able to make a general enquiry via a party wall surveyor.

AndyPandyismyhero · 10/10/2023 19:22

It might still be worth talking to a party wall surveyor as they might have some advice for you, but I don't think you can have a pea drawn up retrospectively. In our case, the PWS came and took photos of our house, inside and out before the work started, discussed access to our property for certain parts of the job and also the permitted hours of work. All costs were met by the neighbour who is having the work done. PWS also made sure that there was proper insurance in place from the builder, in case of any damage.

Original poster

VintedoreBay · 10/10/2023 20:54

AndyPandyismyhero · 10/10/2023 19:22

It might still be worth talking to a party wall surveyor as they might have some advice for you, but I don't think you can have a pea drawn up retrospectively. In our case, the PWS came and took photos of our house, inside and out before the work started, discussed access to our property for certain parts of the job and also the permitted hours of work. All costs were met by the neighbour who is having the work done. PWS also made sure that there was proper insurance in place from the builder, in case of any damage.

Yeah absolutely regret not doing this now, naivety showing I suppose. They were pressuring us to return their consent form which should have been a red flag!

I've checked and we do have legal cover under our home insurance so will call them tomorrow and also see if we can find a local party wall surveyor for advice too.

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Original poster

VintedoreBay · 10/10/2023 20:55

Rollercoaster1920 · 10/10/2023 18:26

Do you have legal advice with you building insurance?

Yes! Thankfully. I wasn't sure so did have to check. Will call them tomorrow

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Original poster

VintedoreBay · 11/10/2023 11:45

So our own building contractors came round and have confirmed that the neighbours have breached the party wall act and what they've done without a party wall agreement is illegal. The consent that we have was for them to have a dormer built within their boundary and wouldn't require a party wall agreement. For them to remove our tiles and join to our dormer they would require a surveyor at the outset and a party wall agreement.

According to our builder and their legal team.

Anyone else been through a similar dispute?

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Rollercoaster1920 · 11/10/2023 22:20

Not quite. But similar on some ways. The party wall stuff is irrelevant here.

They (the builders) have trespassed onto your property and caused damage. You need to legally pursue the builders to recover the damages, I.e the cost of rectifying the damage they've caused. Not your neighbour. You might be able to pursue the neighbour if he refuses to provide the builder's details.

I had a neighbour's builders damage my property (with the neighbour's consent). The cost of pursuing it via legal avenues wasn't worth it.
We no longer have a cordial relationship with the neighbour.

Expect a neighbour dispute, you are already in one. Be friendly to neighbour, ask for builders legal contract details, company number, and insurance. You want this request of your neighbour in writing. Speak to your legal cover lawyers to check this.

You don't have to agree to these builders fixing the roof, so if you have your own contractor that you trust then that's a good thing. You'll need 3 quotes for the repair work.

Rollercoaster1920 · 11/10/2023 22:27

Although if the gap between dormers is small, covering it over might be the best solution. But needs to be agreed in advance.

mustgetoffmn · 17/05/2024 11:12

I think you know nothing involving your property should be touched by any one without your consent and knowledge. I’d also feel concerned that builders would do that and would check if they went ahead without consulting. If so I’d make a case for them to use a different firm

Original poster

VintedoreBay · 17/05/2024 22:46

mustgetoffmn · 17/05/2024 11:12

I think you know nothing involving your property should be touched by any one without your consent and knowledge. I’d also feel concerned that builders would do that and would check if they went ahead without consulting. If so I’d make a case for them to use a different firm

Things have moved on now. We're in a legal dispute with the neighbour, ongoing, for actionable trespass x2, recoverable legal costs and a whole load of ball ache etc etc

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