our seller faked their EPC - is it possible?

[IamwhoIsayIam]

I've just had the EPC back for a property we are purchasing. It puts it at an A. I simply don't believe it. There is not a scrap of double glazing, it is standard gas and electric, stone built with no internal or external insulation. It is very old and has not been maintained for at least the last ten years. It has a deep cellar with bare stone and earth walls.

I have tried phoning the assessor but he is on holiday. It's ground floor only which might make a difference I guess but our current home is a D and has far more energy efficient features installed. I just don't get it!

Can these be made up? It is logged on the government website.

I suppose another question could be - does it matter?

Our one details everything that we have in place (window type, boiler type etc). Does the one you have that? You could at least see if there’s something completely untrue (eg solar panels listed on EPC, but none at the property).

Some firms are a lot more flexible than others.

I sold my Victorian flat in 2021, I advertised it fairly with the existing EPC and was clear in the description that it was a lovely flat but needed a fair bit of work to boost the EPC, due to its age and the general building condition.

The estate agents sent an EPC assessor round who managed to boost it from a D to a B, bizarrely. He made a lot of "estimations" of insulation thickness and wall construction etc. I felt that was a bit odd and paid for my own; and he made it a high C. Neither certificate was wrong, and both are higher than I'd thought! For the house we bought, the EPC assessor was a lot more critical and marked it as a low C when it probably should have been better than that.

If it's registered with the Government, it's not likely to be faked, an approved company will have had to do it. You can look at the certificate and see what is estimated and if it looks about right, though.

Bribery happens.
Same with Food Hygiene ratings.

All it shows is heating type - natural gas. And building environment - Heating and Natural Ventilation.

No mention of any other specifics. I've looked at the recommendations and that makes no mentions of upgrades. My own for my house says things about changing existing single glazed to double etc etc

It's assessment level 3 - so I guess I need to find out what that actually means.

@IamwhoIsayIam have a look here www.gov.uk/find-energy-certificate

This will show if it's properly registered for a start

Did you get the EPC directly off the register? That should be the official uploaded one. Or did they send it to you? On the register, at the bottom of the PDF, if a previous one has been done there will be a certificate number and a link. You can compare the two.

Yes, it absolutely matters. What you described sounds like a E to me. It’s the difference between throwing tens of thousands of pounds at energy improvements or not. It’s the difference between £100 and over £600 a month to heat your home. Energy inefficient homes will become increasingly hard to sell in the future.

I doubt a home as you described could even be brought up to a A. I lived in a E that the assessor claimed could be brought up to an A but it was laughable - it included installing a wind turbine in the garden. With stone you might achieve a D. You can’t just slap internal insulation on them without causing future damp issues.

The assessor doesn’t work for you so they are not duty bound to respond and may not, but they are all regulated, it will be on the certificate.

In answer to your question, yes, EPC assessors can and do write fraudulent reports.

https://www.stromacert.com/news/epc-fraud-report

One possible explanation is it could be an admin error by the company who performed the EPC. Another possibility is maybe another business accidently logged a report to the wrong house number.

I would say wait until you have talked to the assessor.

The house you describe seems very unlikely to be an A. Therefore it would be pointless someone logging it as an A, because it would be immediately apparent that it wasn't and someone would likely call that out. I would guess if there was a dodgy assessor they would be far more likely in bumping something from say a D to a C.

As regards whether it is a bad idea to buy a house with a very low rating, I would say it depends, especially as to whether the price you are paying reflects the amount of energy it will need to keep it warm, the cost of potential future improvements to make it better/compliant with future legislation.

I suppose another alternative is to get an independent assessment - I don't think they are that expensive.

Another question would be - if you thought it was OK when you viewed it without knowing the EPC, why does knowing the EPC make a difference ? Surely you had a good idea of its likely EPC status beforehand ?

@GasPanic I didn't think it was ok without knowing the EPC. I expected it to be no higher than a D! That is why I am mistrustful of it getting an A.

Friends of ours purchased an end of terrace stone cottage that had been accidentally (?) given the incorrect EPC, so it does/can happen. They are a bit dim and didn't realise this till post completion.

Ours is also stone (detached, 400+ years old) and the - now expired - EPC is an F with potential to be an E. When we purchased the property it had no double glazing or much insulation and the ancient, rusted boiler wasn't a combi. We've added timber double glazed windows to the front elevation, added lots of insulation where possible as well as replacing the boiler with a combi. We also had two huge wood burners fitted which - being very rural with our own supply of firewood - is actually our main source of heating.

We're about to sell and imagine it'll still be an F...but old houses like ours can't be over-insulated without causing issues with damp down the line. A low rating wouldn't bother me as long as I could afford the heating bills, for example.

Yes, but how does that affect your purchase decision ?

You knew it was bad and now found out that it is more than likely wrongly rated to something higher. It shouldn't change your purchase decision because you knew it was pretty awful anyway.

From your description though I think a D is a bit ambitious.

Get your own prior to purchase, costs about £60 🙂

It’s almost 100% bent. Do you want to share the address details?

There's an official register.

Look it up.

100% this sounds wrong. Our 20 year old house with double glazing and cavity wall and partial loft insulation is still only a C. I'd definitely query whether the wrong certificate has been shared

Had someone out to do mine the other day. He stood in my kitchen for literally 2 minutes, took a picture of the boiler and left. Apparently the certificate will be sent to me. Didn't look in any other rooms, the loft or anything. Think I got a dodgy one too.

@NewName122 that sounds extremely dodgy. At the very least in even the most modern of homes where you can more easily guess and see double glazing outside he should still check if all radiators have TRVs, the number of low energy lightbulbs you have in the house, what sort of thermostat, you have, and the square footage. Report him to Stroma or the other one if applicable. It will have contact details on the certificate when it comes through. Get him struck off and your money refunded.

Of course there's a lot of scamming and pisstaking around this.

Some people are getting extremely wealthy off all of these green rules and regulations and the average Joe has no bloody idea.

Whenever there's some kind or rush or panic, and rules are drawn up in haste, or to make the government look good, there is absolutely enormous scope for clever, unscrupulous people to make a shit tonne of money. At the little guy's expense, of course. Then people wonder why there doesn't seem to be much money available for the important stuff.

See also: covid PPE, hotels for asylum seekers, ULEZ...

@IamwhoIsayIam

I don't think you have the right EPC. The way you describe it, it sounds like a Non-Domestic one. Hopefully, you've got the correct one from the domestic register now.

A ratings are very rare without renewables, so if there aren't any solar panels or an air source heat pump then it's all a bit of a mess.

That’s not an assessment - my partner is a DEA (domestic energy assessor) & RA (retrofit assessor) he’s in houses for minimum 2 hours, longer if it’s a bigger house or conservation area etc.

it shouldn’t be “bent” as the assessors get audited every few surveys, if they are found to be false then they can be suspended over the SMALLEST thing.

again, I’m with someone that does this for a living and is very good at his job - if it’s jumped up to an A then that surveyor isn’t passing that audit!

I thought it was pretty impossible to get an A as that would indicate state of the art insulation, heating etc, that almost no houses meet, unless new build and deliberately built this way.

Yes, this makes me think it's an administrative error on the register, as opposed to the sellers doing anything dodgy (unless they are quite stupid) as it is so patently wrong. Has the software been set up so that A is the default, unless a rating is entered, for example?

Have you looked at what the other flats in the property are, or your neighbours? I have a mid terrace cottage, one of 6, every single one of them is a D.

That's impossible to be an A. I just recently got mine redone after a bunch of work. I'm a B. I've literally got a large solar system and battery to go off grid 10months of the year. Above regs insulation in both the attic and under floor. And cavity wall insulation. Fully double glazed and full energy lighting etc. The only possible upgrade suggestion they can give me to increase my rating is to do solar water heating and that will still leave me on a B and only add 2 measly points. When they did my inspection, the assessor went into the attic. Even went under the floors and took photos of the insulation. Needed the receipt and warranty certificate for the cavity insulation for it to be counted and photo of that too. Photo of my whole solar array and all paperwork. There needs to be serious proof regarding any ratings now. I would be calling out the estate agent and specify they are liable for any improvements should the certificate proof to be inaccurate. Bet they crumble quickly. But then you risk losing the house as there might be other offers. The benefit you have here is you're not naive enough to fall for it and have realistic expectations. But if they are willing to supply such a dodgy epc...be aware there might be other issues with the property. Its likely the assessor either didn't know it was being sold and is doing dodgy certificates for rentals. Not ok...but sadly common. Thinking it wouldn't come back and bite him. But epcs these days, are serious business. They can lose their licence for this. Small chance its an admin error. However that's probably the excuse they will use.

Not a chance it’s an A unless it’s secretly a PassivHaus in disguise 😉
Your mortgage provider will assess the house as is albeit won’t give you a rating. Going to look a bit odd when you go to sell it in a few years if you accept it now?

I don’t even think new builds would qualify as an A - I’d get your own surveyor - I think it’s about £60 depending on individual rates as self employed can charge what they want.

if he didn’t go around your house, take photos of each room, each ventilation, loft hatch - if he didn’t drill and boroscope the walls to check cavity capacity etc then I can tell you 100% he didn’t survey your house.

what you describe is a role that you don’t even have to be qualified to do