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Original poster

Original loft bedroom in Victorian house

24 replies

SaveFerris2016 · 20/09/2023 01:51

Hi!
If anyone could shed any light on this, I'd be eternally grateful. I feel like I've scoured every corner of the Internet and am still none the wiser...
So, we're currently buying a property with a loft bedroom. The vendor claims it is original. It is difficult to see other similar properties on the same street as the dormer window is at the back. How is it possible to get definitive proof of this?? I'm concerned about a) it affecting resale value if it isn't a legit extra room and b) it invalidating home insurance if we're not sure if it counts as an extra room. I'm also concerned about safety as it would he used as a bedroom though we can install our own fire protection measures etc. Also, they've added an ensuite etc - even if it's original, should they still have got Building Regs Approval for these works?
Thank you!

OP posts:
Nat6999 · 20/09/2023 03:12

Your survey should tell if it is original or not. When I was young we lived in a 1920's terraced house with an attic, every house in our block had an attic, the next block is identical in layout but without the attic.

MaggieBsBoat · 20/09/2023 03:21

My house is from 1850 and very much has an original attic bedroom. It was a servant’s bedroom but a bedroom nonetheless. Unless I’ve misunderstood the question…

dreamersdown · 20/09/2023 03:39

We had two original bedrooms in the loft of our Victorian house. The survey will tell you but in the meantime check out historic Rightmove listings for other houses on the street. It depends when the en-suite was added as to whether they had to pass building regs but your solicitor will advise.

cazcaz2 · 20/09/2023 03:44

Yes we have one and it has old wooden beams in it.Used as servants room i think.

MidnightOnceMore · 20/09/2023 03:50

Regarding the building regs for bathroom - your surveyor and solicitor will advise.

The surveyor will advise about the age of the loft room itself.

cathyandclare · 20/09/2023 07:38

We're renovating a Victorian house with a few original attic bedrooms, they were common at the time. Does yours have a fireplace/ evidence of a removed fireplace in the floorboards, that may be a clue it's original?

areyouhavinglaugh · 20/09/2023 07:41

There are a few houses in our terrace that have attic rooms with windows that are original.

They are all at the end of each terrace and 1 in the middle. Middle house is bigger than the rest.

All the rest of our houses just have loft space. No windows or stairs.

SoupDragon · 20/09/2023 07:42

It is difficult to see other similar properties on the same street as the dormer window is at the back

Google Earth will help here. Especially if it has 3D view available.

WhatapityWapiti · 20/09/2023 07:45

Our Victorian house has an original attic room. As pp said, look for a fireplace, ours has one. The ceiling of the room is open to the rafters, no attic space above it.

WhatapityWapiti · 20/09/2023 07:50

Fireplace in room with ceiling open to rafters. Also, look at the stairs leading to the room, you might be able to tell if they look original.

Original loft bedroom in Victorian house
Original poster
SaveFerris2016 · 20/09/2023 10:00

Thanks everyone. Do any of your attic rooms have ensuites? Our surveyor has said that even if the room was original and hence doesn't need Building Regs, the fact that someone has put an en suite in since means they should have got Building Regs Approval for this as it's a change of purpose. Hence this will have implications for insurance etc. I just read about an awful situation where there was a house fire and the insurance wouldn't pay out because the loft hasn't been signed off properly yet was being used as a living space.

OP posts:
WhatapityWapiti · 20/09/2023 10:11

All the issues about building regs approval and the implications of not having it should be dealt with by your solicitor.

cathyandclare · 20/09/2023 10:20

We don’t have ensuites but we do have bathrooms which also wouldn’t have been there in the attic in Victorian times- I think the top floor was servants quarters then.

Lots of old houses don’t have building regs for changes. There were few formal regs before the mid Sixties, further regulations were introduced in the eighties but prior to 2013 there was no requirement for local authorities to issue completion certificates in all cases. If an ensuite was installed decades ago there would have been no need for regs for a replacement suite.

A non signed-off loft conversion is different from an original attic room legally.

Heronwatcher · 20/09/2023 11:06

Yes to see if the room is original try google earth, looking at other sold houses on Rightmove and looking for original fireplaces and stairs.

On building regs, isn’t the question whether the en suite required regs when it was done? Loads of people live in and insure houses now which would not comply with current standards. Your solicitor can advise but the simplest thing might just be to declare it to your insurer if there is any doubt? Then they can’t deny a pay out if they continue to provide insurance In full knowledge of the potential issue.

DepartureLounge · 20/09/2023 15:44

I don't know the answer to the question, but what I will say is that if you want to know what building regs applied when, talk to your solicitor or the planning department NOT your surveyor - or just do some quality googling tbh. In my experience, surveyors are quite poor at mapping legislation as it applied at any given date on to what they see in front of them. My buyers last year offered to waive the fact that my extension didn't have the necessary planning permission, which was terribly gracious considering it hadn't actually needed it. But their surveyor had been adamant in his report that it did because he hadn't appreciated the fact that the extension pre-dated the legislation he was quoting - all completely wrong and wasted a lot of everyone's time and spirit.

TerfTalking · 20/09/2023 17:13

SaveFerris2016 · 20/09/2023 01:51

Hi!
If anyone could shed any light on this, I'd be eternally grateful. I feel like I've scoured every corner of the Internet and am still none the wiser...
So, we're currently buying a property with a loft bedroom. The vendor claims it is original. It is difficult to see other similar properties on the same street as the dormer window is at the back. How is it possible to get definitive proof of this?? I'm concerned about a) it affecting resale value if it isn't a legit extra room and b) it invalidating home insurance if we're not sure if it counts as an extra room. I'm also concerned about safety as it would he used as a bedroom though we can install our own fire protection measures etc. Also, they've added an ensuite etc - even if it's original, should they still have got Building Regs Approval for these works?
Thank you!

Hi OP, I can give you a very recent experience of exactly this situation.

DS recently (AUGUST) bought a Victoria semi build in 1886. It is a large semi with four bedrooms on the first floor and an attic with a further two and an en- suite shower room on the 2nd.

On looking round it definitely appeared that the attic and attic bedrooms were original to the build, the floorboards were visible, the staircase wide and high with original doors and a skylight. The shower room was done by the previous owners, as were some Velux windows.

As part of the conveyance DS's solicitor insisted there should be building regs, the sellers argued that they weren't needed as the attic was original.

After much to-ing and fro-ing the council inspected and insisted that the seller got a Regularisation Certificate for the Velux windows and shower room installation, they had to install a fan to bring it up to Building Regs and get that certificate. Fortunately the Velux were fitted at the right height and escape windows to get sign off.

The council provided an email to confirm that building regs for the attic were not required as it was build before whatever date they were introduced in the 70s or 80s.

Oh, and I think there was at least one of those bloody indemnity policies along the way that the seller had to buy.

Hope that helps.

Original poster
SaveFerris2016 · 20/09/2023 23:56

TerfTalking · 20/09/2023 17:13

Hi OP, I can give you a very recent experience of exactly this situation.

DS recently (AUGUST) bought a Victoria semi build in 1886. It is a large semi with four bedrooms on the first floor and an attic with a further two and an en- suite shower room on the 2nd.

On looking round it definitely appeared that the attic and attic bedrooms were original to the build, the floorboards were visible, the staircase wide and high with original doors and a skylight. The shower room was done by the previous owners, as were some Velux windows.

As part of the conveyance DS's solicitor insisted there should be building regs, the sellers argued that they weren't needed as the attic was original.

After much to-ing and fro-ing the council inspected and insisted that the seller got a Regularisation Certificate for the Velux windows and shower room installation, they had to install a fan to bring it up to Building Regs and get that certificate. Fortunately the Velux were fitted at the right height and escape windows to get sign off.

The council provided an email to confirm that building regs for the attic were not required as it was build before whatever date they were introduced in the 70s or 80s.

Oh, and I think there was at least one of those bloody indemnity policies along the way that the seller had to buy.

Hope that helps.

Edited
Show quote history

This is really interesting, thank you! So the ensuite was treated separately and required its own Building Regs? This ensuite doesn't have a window as it's right next to the main room - so do you know if the window was mandatory to achieve sign off?
Or do you mean the Velux window was in the bedroom? If so, why did that have to be compliant considering the attic room was original and hence exempt from needing sign off? Were they concerned with things like floor joists etc too?
Thank you!

OP posts:
MidnightOnceMore · 21/09/2023 05:58

SaveFerris2016 · 20/09/2023 10:00

Thanks everyone. Do any of your attic rooms have ensuites? Our surveyor has said that even if the room was original and hence doesn't need Building Regs, the fact that someone has put an en suite in since means they should have got Building Regs Approval for this as it's a change of purpose. Hence this will have implications for insurance etc. I just read about an awful situation where there was a house fire and the insurance wouldn't pay out because the loft hasn't been signed off properly yet was being used as a living space.

Yes the bathroom should meet building regs.

Your solicitor needs to deal with all this.

cathyandclare · 21/09/2023 10:29

You don’t have to have a window for bathroom building regs but you do need an extractor fan

TerfTalking · 21/09/2023 19:55

SaveFerris2016 · 20/09/2023 23:56

This is really interesting, thank you! So the ensuite was treated separately and required its own Building Regs? This ensuite doesn't have a window as it's right next to the main room - so do you know if the window was mandatory to achieve sign off?
Or do you mean the Velux window was in the bedroom? If so, why did that have to be compliant considering the attic room was original and hence exempt from needing sign off? Were they concerned with things like floor joists etc too?
Thank you!

Show quote history

Yes, the en-suite was treated separately as it was installed (by taking part of the bigger bedroom) after building regulations became a thing. The two attic bedrooms have a Velux, one also had an original skylight. The en suite also had a velux. I guess the plumbing and window and electrics passed building regs but because there was no fan, the seller had to put one in to get the council approval and Regularisation Certificate.

The skylight didn’t need one as it predated Building Regs but all three Velux did because they were installed after building regs!

Im not sure if a window is mandatory is a loft shower roof but a fan most definitely is, so it seems.

honestly, I would call your local council planning dept and ask. Our council is shit but the woman in planning was great both for DS in his sale (other issues) and the sellers with the attic. Coincidentally it was the same woman!

good luck, it appears to be a common issue in old houses, but it’s important you get the right ticks in boxes and sign off. Don’t make someone else’s problem yours.

foodislife1 · 21/09/2023 23:22

To those who have an original staircase - do you find it's quite steep? Or has anyone had the staircase redone?

MaggieBsBoat · 22/09/2023 10:26

Our staircase to the attic is very steep and I’m quite sure when I am old it will be completely unmanageable. The other main staircase is also very steep.

TerfTalking · 22/09/2023 12:56

DSs house no, but it’s quite a generous sized house. The hall, staircase and landing are all spacious so the stairs to the attic whilst being smaller are a similar gradient, width and height to my modern house.

foodislife1 · 22/09/2023 15:55

I think we may have to get ours redone and Im curious as to how big a job it is and how much it'll cost

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