Ring doorbell and privacy

[AInightingale]

Can anyone advise me on these? My neighbour has had one installed on her front door. Our doors are about two feet apart, we share a path and actually a doorstep, which is all one structure- it's a terrace. There is a drainpipe in between, nothing else. Will her device be recording image AND audio of us as we come and go, and conversations with visitors etc? I am very concerned about this, I find it a total intrusion. Is what she has done legal, and have I any way of screening or blocking the sensor so it does not pick up footage from my doorstep? I don't have much knowledge of these systems or how they work.

My neighbours (in flats) have put one up at their door which faces directly onto ours about 6m away across the landing. We have to walk directly in front of theirs to get to our door. I’m really really uncomfortable about it! Need to talk with them about it. Awkward as they are new.
can it be set up only to record when the doorbell is rung? And the motion detector switched off entirely?

If she has motion detection it will be recording an absolute load of events abs unless she is extremely creepy won't be listening to them all who has the time.

They are very useful devices particularly if your away and you want to see who has rung your bell.

Definitely I have this setting and it dsoent record them either. It just shows me who js at my door at the time.

Just ask them. We had one put in and don’t record audio and we black out neighbours paths and windows opposite. We just set the motion detection to the approach to our property. We’ve had a couple of neighbours ask as they were worried about privacy but I just showed them recent motion detection and they can see no audio and their property blacked out. One neighbour said he feels safer parking his car in front of our house because we have it and is likely a deterrent.

My son just came in a while ago and she was sitting with her blinds open and as I let him in, he said, 'the lady next door is looking very decrepit' which I'm sure went down well if she has volume enabled and heard him. Oh well, double-edged sword and all that.

i can understand your perspectives, but why are you discussing sensitive information on the front outside ?

Instinctively I don't like it - my parents' neighbour has a camera trained out of her front window at the communal entrance to the flats and it creeps me out a bit to know my comings and goings are being recorded. Your situation would make me feel like my doorstep was being bugged! But it does seem to be increasingly socially acceptable, and I can see the security arguments.

If the red light is on, it’s recording. She should be able to change the area on settings so it doesn’t record your doorstep etc.

We have one, as do my neighbours, our doors are right next to each other. You soon get bored of watching their comings and goings! Our camera is only triggered when they’re very close to the boundary so it probably only films them 25% of the time.

I would ask her to make adjustments but if not contact the ICO as there was a recentish publication of guidance on ring doorbells because of a person who was being filmed by their neighbour

You don’t need to contact the ICO

They have published their views on their website and make it very clear they won’t get involved, and set out the steps you can take - mostly ‘talk to your neighbour’ and in very limited circumstances, speak to the police

https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/domestic-cctv-systems/

“You can complain to us when a user of domestic CCTV doesn’t follow the rules. We can send a letter asking them to resolve things, eg put up the appropriate signage or respond to data protection requests.
There is a limited amount of action the ICO can take after this point to make the person comply. It is highly unlikely the ICO will consider it fair or balanced to take enforcement action against a domestic CCTV user.”

“People have the right to install CCTV cameras and smart doorbells on their property. They should try to point cameras away from neighbours’ homes and gardens, shared spaces or public streets. But this is not always possible, and it is not illegal to do so.
If you complain to us about a data protection issue about the use of domestic CCTV, and we believe a person broke the rules – we can write to them. In our letter, we may ask them to consider moving the cameras and to think about the privacy of others.
There is a limited amount of action the ICO can take after this point to make the person comply. It is highly unlikely the ICO will consider it fair or balanced to take enforcement action against a domestic CCTV user.”

Presumably she'd have been able to hear your conversation had she been stood inside her front door anyway if the doors are so close? Can't see the difference really. If you're that paranoid about people hearing your conversations, talk inside or talk more quietly, not in a public place.

Which privacy laws do you think are being breached here?

Our neighbour who is side on to us quite a distance away with only one upstairs window visible was not happy when OH casually mentioned installing one. So we backed off. They're the nosiest neighbours in the cul de sac.

We've worked out that the neighbors opposite them have a very sophisticated system he texted them at 5.30 am to tell them a dog had pooped in their drive. Texted us at 3am to say that the garage door was open. So he must have cameras multi to see both. He's big in IT bank security, working from home and likes gadgets. He must have sound because if you stop to talk to his wife, MIL on the other side of their hedge at the bottom of the drive. He's out like a shot to tell them to come in now.

Now that is unnerving

The Data Protection Act and GDPR were cited in a recent court case. Basically you need a good reason to record images and audio of others or it can be construed as nuisance and harassment. 'Private property' and the right to enjoy it are impacted by being recorded unaware.

It's a bit creepy thinking that our neighbour is recording conversations we have with his wife or her mother.

It IS creepy. I can't understand why people are ok with any old Tom Dick or Harry doing it. To record private conversations for the purposes of criminal investigations requires a very high level authorisation, yet the public seem to be able to do it with these devices? What's to stop people installing a smart device at their backdoor, garden shed etc, and creeping on neighbours in back gardens, where there is an expectation of privacy - these things have quite a range.

Take a look at the link I posted to the ICO website, and you’ll see you are very misinformed on this

In fact, the opening line on the page is “The use of recording equipment, such as CCTV or smart door bells, to capture video or sound recordings outside the user’s property boundary is not a breach of data protection law.”

Also from the ICO page…

”It is unlikely that the police would consider using CCTV to record you as harassment, without other misconduct by the person.”

I can lay in bed and hear every conversation on my neighbours ring doorbell, I know where their parcels are hidden, as the tell the postman and delivery drivers where to put them. If I can hear the street can hear. They have chats with people who call and they are out, they tell them when they will be home. It’s ridiculous. They also leave their doors open out the back when they go out, so anyone can hear they are not in and then go in. They’ve had their Gusto pack stolen , bloody ring doorbell is useless for these dimwits!

Yeah but if you want an intense, private conversation with your husband, do you normally step outside the front door? Would you not, you know, stay in the house?

Also it doesn't matter because anyone can open their window and look at/listen to you whenever they want.

You're probably not as interesting as you're imagining.

I have a Ring doorbell, live in a terrace and my neighbour's door is also right next to mine. Tbh, any of the (numerous) doorstep conversations that she has several times a day are far more audible through my open windows than through my doorbell. Or even just through my closed front door!

I only have my doorbell for safety reasons, rarely look through it or review footage but it's comforting to know it's there.

We have a ring doorbell and a driveway camera. Out front door is private but we’ve found that the camera only starts recording from a certain distance- which my husband set. Previously we were having anyone on the street setting our camera off so now you need to be right at our door to be seen.

The driveway one is slightly different and covers a wider range so we chatted with our neighbours before setting it up. When it was set up we let them see it so they could sort of approve it. We did highlight that we wouldn’t be checking any audio unless anyone suspicious was around.
A month after it was installed their garden was broken into and bikes taken. We had the footage on our camera to send to the police and our neighbours were incredibly grateful.

If it’s making you feel this uncomfortable then why not have a little chat with her and ask what it can see. I’m not sure you can ask her to remove it but you could double check she’s not viewing anyone coming in and out of your house etc.

“Looking very decrepit” maybe he could give you weekly updates loud and clear!
We have someone with a very loud ring doorbell in our neighbourhood. You can hear every conversation they have using it! Not bothered to find out which house yet.

If I were you I would buy and install my own Ring doorbell. Then have a conversation with her about both setting up your doorbells to record only your own pathway

I recently set up my dad's Ring doorbell and in the app you can set exclusion zones so that it just captures people on your own doorstep. The doorbell doesn't record unless you buy a monthly subscription. If you go for the free option, it just has a live feed (no recording).

The only thing you can do is chat to your neighbour and ask (if they haven't already) if they can exclude your property from their camera's view.