Ring doorbell and privacy

[AInightingale]

Can anyone advise me on these? My neighbour has had one installed on her front door. Our doors are about two feet apart, we share a path and actually a doorstep, which is all one structure- it's a terrace. There is a drainpipe in between, nothing else. Will her device be recording image AND audio of us as we come and go, and conversations with visitors etc? I am very concerned about this, I find it a total intrusion. Is what she has done legal, and have I any way of screening or blocking the sensor so it does not pick up footage from my doorstep? I don't have much knowledge of these systems or how they work.

Or, wild thought… have those confidential conversations inside your house?

how hard is it to stay “pop inside quickly and we can chat there”..?

Sometimes, yes of course. Why should I have to hide indoors because of a neighbour surveilling my property. Some people are more private than others, for many reasons.

Privacy laws were designed to protect people, but they are becoming eroded by stealth.

It IS different. Your home is not a public space.

And yes a shared space should need consent from all owners.

We have one. It’s not like CCTV. The recording is triggered by a movement and lasts a certain interval e.g ours is 10 sec. You can put a longer interval but I don’t think it’s possible to put more than a minute. The video records sounds as well but it’s not triggered by sounds. Ours has sort of cooling off period so it won’t record you every time if you are going up and down the path constantly, more like 10 seconds every 3 minutes.
So in your case it will record your brother coming up to path/ door (depending on the angle of camera) and maybe a first hello,
or sound of you opening the door then the recording will stop and then will record him going away. There won’t be recording when he is standing and chatting with you near the door. It could start recording again theoretically if you would be moving but it would be just a short interval again. From what you’ve described your neighbour would be better off just standing near the door and listening.
Hope it helps.

As you know it's there, keep conversation to inside the house. I can't see why you would want to discuss your mother's care on the doorstep.

We have a ring doorbell and it does record audio and videos. We don't pay a subscription so it disappears after a few days or so iirr.

We have set ours to only alert and record if it's someone in our drive/front garden, though the live view you can see further.
We have a sign up and the doorbell is clearly visible so it's obvious to others that if on our drive/property then may be recorded.

To be fair though so many people have them round here it probable doesn't matter to most of our neighbours anyway.

Unless they click for live view at that exact time!

It will only record if it's been triggered by movement. So that depends if she has set a zone and where it reaches.

Or if she is in live mode, then she can see and hear too.

But to be honest if she was that keen to hear she could just open her window and listen too I suspect.

The only time my neighbours voices have been recorded is when they've used our drive to cut the corner.it doesn't record then when they park their cars on their drive or walk to their own door.

I doubt she is going to start showing you her phone app and settings. And even if she did - how do you know she won't change then ten minutes later?

I didn't tell my neighbours. Likewise, we've never been told either.

The key for private conversations is to have them in private places.

She can legally record on her property but not on yours. It's a breach of the GPDR act to do so and I know someone who was charged for filming a neighbour on there property as it can be harrassment. She should have set up privacy zones on her CCTV to ensure its not filming on your property. She should also have up a sign to say CCTV.

I do sometimes hear people talking to her, but unless the house is silent and the windows are wide open or the person is a total loudmouth who talks well above normal volume, it's more of a mutter-mumble-rumble sort of indistinct noise, It's completely different to a microphone picking up sound and conveying it to a phone. I really don't see why we should be forced to always talk indoors or halfway up the garden just to avoid the risk of being recorded. What a society.

Maybe you could be a bit more sensitive to her desire to have increased security on her property, and to be able to see who's at the door before she opens it?
Does she live alone?

I absolutely do respect her desire for security, but also want privacy. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. My aunt lived alone and had a small cctv camera above her door that sent images to her TV so she could see who was there before going anywhere near the front door - this was a while ago - but these things have moved up to another level, I guess.

The benefit for good hugely outweighs your dislike of having to make sure you have private conversations in private.

A family member of mine has a similar set up and her camera caught a knife attack at next door neighbours. The doorbell meant they were able to fetch and prosecute him.

I agree with you OP, these things aren't necessary for 99.9% of the time, we as a society are unwilling to take any risk, that's the problem.
The thing is, even if you are burgled or your car is stolen, what are you going to do with the footage anyway? The police aren't interested.
These things are a fashion accessory and are only useful to take delivery of parcels.

Qil I did hit "live view" once when a couple of neighbours were having an argument and I wanted evidence in case it came to blows.

If you have such strong feelings about privacy, you might need to think about moving to somewhere detached and without a shared doorstep.

We’ve had ours for about 4 years, and I’ve had 3 occasions when the police have knocked on my door and asked to look at specific footage.

Most recently was when a vulnerable teen went missing nearby and they wanted to see if she had walked along our street.

They pieced together footage from my and other neighbours cameras to work out which way she had gone, and she was quickly found.

I also live close to where Sarah Everard went missing, and the sheer amount of doorbell cam footage they were able to check was a key part of solving the case.

It’s really weird to call it a ‘fashion accessory’ or whatever was said.

And there is a clear divide between houses that get parcels stolen from the front step, and those who don’t, and it’s always a camera

I have one and when I'm on my own I prefer to see who is at the door - and I don't understand why anyone would think that overkill tbh.

I can't imagine they will be there trawling through the footage of you making small talk with the postie and can't see the huge issue/

Technically as she is recording sound and vision in a public area, and on your private property she is subject to the data protection act and GDPR.

To my knowledge there isn't specific legislation for door bells, but they are effectively CCTV and should be considered as such for the purposes of ICO / GDPR.
To understand the implications please see below.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/cctv-and-video-surveillance/

You are correct in thinking she will be able to hear and see your conversations, and it is reasonable to be concerned.

You could ask her to remove the device, but I think you may also benefit from it's installation, and may even consider fitting a similar device yourself at some point in the future.

Personally I wouldn't object, but I would be mindful that it's there.

Thanks @Dbank. My son had a scooter nicked from the foyer of a local shop once, and they followed all this data protection stuff to the letter, the security guy went away and viewed it alone, we weren't allowed to look at it to see if we recognised the culprits, so it was all a bit of a waste of time. So it's taken incredibly seriously by businesses, but your neighbours can film anyone, hmm.

I have a ring doorbell on a terraced house and there is no way to set the detection zones to avoid my neighbours door/path - we are too close together and the zones will only shrink so far !
I can see and hear everyone / everything that happens on their doorstep .
But if you don’t want anyone to hear your private conversation then don’t have them on your doorstep !!

You can however choose to disable audio streaming/recording except when someone rings the bell.

I don't see how security is improved much by being able to hear audio in motion triggers.

Has she got a sticker up saying CCTV recording as you are supposed to have one so people know they may be recorded if it is near the street and can pick up passers by